peter monahan

Many years ago there was a bloke who showed up in Toronto [Canada] representing himself as an officer and a veteran and wearing a group of medals starting with an Egypt and running up to and including WWII. He managed to get himself accepted as a member of the Canadian Military Institute and was treated in all ways as an honoured old soldier. However, a canny member of the CMI eventually twigged top the fact that the ribbon for "an Italian award" which he wore behind his other ribbons was in fact the same IGS ribbon Mervyn has shown here! At that point somebody stopped to do the math and figured that he would have had to have been 12 or 14 at Tel-El-Kebir to have earned them all. He was outed and quietly crept away into deserved obscurity. Oddly enough, the Egypt and 'his' Boer war pair floated around the medal dealers and junk shops in Toronto for years after alway, to the best of my knowledge, with this story attached. As best I recall, they were name erased, not renamed to him - he had an explanation for that too, apparently. I'm not sure whether its a good thing or a bad that we are still so prone to take a man at his word, but it must say something about the brotherhood of old soldiers that we do. Sadly, this seems to be an increasing problem. The Yanks have even passed a new law after several fairly high profile outings of "self-made men" and I recall the fuss last year when a British chap tried to pass himself off as a decorated vet at a memorial parade. We are a curious race!

Brian Very clever indeed! When I saw the post topic I immediately thought 'Oh, yes, a jeweller's tapered [whatchamcallit]', which they use to restore the other kind of rings to roundness. But of course those have no provision for the ring on the medal itself, which your groved dowel does a treat. Wery wery good indeed! Peter

I must confess to having the same reaction as you did: too good to be true, even if one ignores some errors and implausibilities in the narrative. I actually spent some time chasing this story down a year or so ago and the best conclusion I could come to was the great Scots criminal verdict of "Not proven", which in my mind means 'not true'. I was sure the official version of |Mtecalfe's saga would be avaiable if it had been true. Today I dug a bit deeper and here's the official story from the Bank of Canada's [/u]web site, the section on bank note designs: "The armistice that marked the end of World War I in 1918 is commemorated with annual Remembrance Day ceremonies, held on 11 November, in cities and towns across Canada. The Remembrance Day service illustrated on the back of the $10 note shows a male veteran, a young boy, and a young girl observing the ceremony. In the background, a male master corporal from the land forces stands vigil at a memorial cenotaph, with a female naval officer. They are depicted in accordance with the standard protocol observed at Remembrance Day ceremonies. The master corporal wears the distinctive land forces uniform in the Number 1 order of dress. He is armed with a Canadian issue C7 rifle and is at the rest-on-arms-reserved position. The female naval officer is a nurse and is dressed in the distinctive naval uniform with an overcoat in the Number 1 order of dress. Members of the Canadian Forces stand vigil at memorials/cenotaphs only for Remembrance Day services. The monument depicted on the back of the $10 note is not true to life. It is meant to represent cenotaphs/war memorials across the country. Together, the illustrations commemorate all Canadians who participated in past wars." In other words, perhaps sadly, the story is a fabrication. Robert Metcalfe, however, is not. The story of his settling in Canada is true and he worked tirelessly for the Gurkha Welfare Trust and to assist veterans. Here is the text of the Department of Veterans Affairs Commendation which he was awarded in 2003: "A Veteran of the Second World War, Mr. Metcalfe was awarded a Life Membership to The Royal Canadian Legion in 1996, in recognition of his valued commitment and support of the RCL. During the past 45 years, he has helped raise thousands of dollars on behalf of the Gurkha Welfare Appeal, to provide pensions, welfare, recreation and medical centres to the Veterans of Nepal. For the past 10 years, Mr. Metcalfe has been The Royal Canadian Legion speaker at the "Encounters With Canada" program, addressing grade 12 and 13 students from across the country. Mr. Metcalfe also served many years as a volunteer guide at the Canadian War Museum, offering them remarkable insights into the achievements and sacrifices of Canadian Veterans. Mr. Metcalfe hosted at his own expense, many groups of Veterans and their families in Europe, leading them on visits of First World War battlefields, cemeteries and cenotaphs. In addition to funding two tours to Sicily and Italy, Mr. Metcalfe conducted several tours to coincide with D-Day anniversaries. He has personally researched the sites prior to conducting the tours, ensuring that the next of kin would visit the final resting places of their relatives and comrades. Mr. Metcalfe has published his war memoirs, thereby keeping alive for future generations the memory of the sacrifice of Veterans. Mr. Metcalfe is a much-admired role model among Veterans and in his community." While his memoirs are mentioned, no details are given and I suspect at least some of what appears in the 'legend' represents embellishment by the unknown original author(s) of this touching urban myth. A pity people feel compelled to make up such stories when so many true ones are as stirringand yet go unremarked.

Brian Absolutely! "You might be a redneck if someone in your family's last words were "Hey, y'all! Watch this!". Or, as any number of police reports put it so succinctly, "Alcohol may have been a factor." :speechless:

Beat me to the punch, Helen! I was going to suggest whichever company supplies school labratories in your area. I have gotten ingredients for 'slowmatch' that way, through the post, in Canada. And the company apparently has no qualms about shipping off to individuals like myself - scary thought - though that may be different where you are. Yes, the 'secret' to gunpowder is the mix. That and 'corning' it so it burns more rapidly. Too much of any one ingredient and one gets either a quick 'whoose' or a long low 'fizzle' and an almighty stink, as opposed to a short sharp 'bang'. Mixing it up in the wrong conditions - static electricity is really bad - can be hazardous to one's health but wearing your Saint Barbara medal is guaranteed to protect you from that too! Peter

I agree. Variants from two different time periods, rather than rank differencing. The later would be very cumbersome to implement - not that that rules it out in the tradition-mad cavalry - and, I think, unusual practice for a British regiment.

By which time many of them were dead! Made the whole issue of pensions moot [and therefore cheap] from the government's perspective. A great shame, as many of the men on the Murmansk run, for example, had as hard a war as any of the PBI and many air and naval crews. My father-in-law was a radio operator on a tramp steamer, in Aden when the war began, and torpedoed in the Bay of Biscay, one day short of England. he took that as a sign and came home to Canada, where he joined the Air Transport Corps, later `Ferry Command`, and flew back and forth across the Atlantic and as far as India. Though he was in fact an employee, not a serviceman, he qualified for the 1939-45 Star, CVSM and War Medal. What I`m not sure is whether that eligibility dated from the war years or later, as he only applied for them many years later ^- at my urging, in fact.

That's how I'd call it too. Any Jocks out there, with a better guess? Peter

But not so knackered that he produced 3 of his 6 children after discharge, the last at the fairly advanced age of 54 years Peter

I think you've answered your own question: if an award is the property of H.M. the Queen, then it cannot be legal to sell or buy it! As to what the relevant office should have done, I suspect that the paperwork which accompanied the award stipulated that it was to be returned on the death of the recipient, but how many relatives would know or care years after the award? As to the Chancery Office bidding for it at auction, well, would you bid on your car if someone had stolen it and put it on auction? Or call a cop? Not being judgemental, BTW. I have in the past owned medal groups with items in them which probably technically beloged to H.M. and I can't say it ever cost me any sleepless nights. I would, however, be very leery of asking officialdom what status it had! My tuppence worth. Peter

Toolkit You have quite a collection there! Unfortunately, the very best book on Indian badges, which has just been published - last year - is available only from India and costs a LOT of money. The author is Ashok Nath, who now lives in Sweden, I think, but served in the Indian Armoured Corps during the 1970's or so. At the moment my computer is not letting me copy the pictures to blow ujp and study but I can ID some even from the small pictures. [i once co-founded a group called 'The Indian Military Collectors Society', so I used to know a bit and can still remember some of it. I'll try to do some of the easy ones for now. In post #3 – your first one – I will identify things by row and number in the row, so the 4th badge in row 1 will be '1.4' and so on. 1.4- 1st Lancers [Hodson's Horse]; 1.5 - 19th Punjab Infantry; 1.6 - 8th King George's Own Lancers; upside down badge below row 1 - 3rd Hyderabad Infantry 2.6, 2.7 & 2.8 – Hyderabad [state forces] units 3.1– Bombay Grenadiers; 3.3- 5th Gurkha Rifles [post-1947]; 3.6 - 2nd Lancers [Gardner's Horse]; 3.7 - 45th Cavalry, Indian Armoured Corps [post-1947] 4.1 - 9th Jat Regiment; 4.2 & 4.3 Pakistan Medical Corps [post-1947]; 4.4 – Assam Regiment; 4.5 - 12th Frontier Force [sam Browne's] Cavalry; 4.7 - 5th Hyderabad Infantry; 4.9 – Frontier Constabulary [Pakistani, post-1947] I'll try to do a few more in a couple days when I have more time. Feel free to e-mail me off-list [petemonahan@sympatico.ca] with questions . Anything with the Lions of Ashoka on it – 3.5, for example; is post '47 Indian; anything wit laterh the star and crescent, or either of those alone, is post '47 Pakistani, with a few exceptions

Fantstiche! Family groups have always appealed to me but mostly one sees brothers or father & son, not man and wife. Another nice catch, Mervyn. Peter

Hard to know what to think about this one. I suppose it depends on whether one espouses the 'hearts and minds' approach, in which case its clearly "Bad Gurkha! Drop it, sir!", or embraces the notion that dead is dead and who cares about his head as long as it served its purpose and wasn't simply a historically sound but tacky way to count coup. Gurkha ordered back to UK after beheading dead Taliban fighter By Christopher Leake A Gurkha soldier has been flown back to the UK after hacking the head off a dead Taliban commander with his ceremonial knife to prove the dead mans identity. The private, from 1st Battalion, Royal Gurkha Rifles, was involved in a fierce firefight with insurgents in the Babaji area of central Helmand Province when the incident took place earlier this month. His unit had been told that they were seeking a high value target, a Taliban commander, and that they must prove they had killed the right man. The Gurkhas had intended to remove the Taliban leaders body from the battlefield for identification purposes. But they came under heavy fire as their tried to do so. Military sources said that in the heat of battle, the Gurkha took out his curved kukri knife and beheaded the dead insurgent. He is understood to have removed the mans head from the area, leaving the rest of his body on the battlefield. This is considered a gross insult to the Muslims of Afghanistan, who bury the entire body of their dead even if parts have to be retrieved. British soldiers often return missing body parts once a battle has ended so the dead can be buried in one piece. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1295617/Gurkha-ordered-UK-beheading-dead-Taliban-fighter.html#ixzz0wb7ICRAu

Would I be correct in assuming that men like Bearer Hardial Murli of the A.B.C served in the Easy African campaign or were they sent to Europe as well? I've always meant to do more reading on the WWI African campaigns, after reading a single book decades ago. The bits that stick in my mind were the notion of units moving up trails into hoastile territory - a formation one man wide and several miles long - a nightmare from the tactical and logistics points of view. Also, a bit of doggerel sung on the march by the bearers: "We are the bearers who carry the food for the bearers who carry the food." Maybe it even rhymes in Swahili or Urdu! The Indian Army issued a number of bronze medals including, I think, one for the Tibet expedition, to everyone from 'Syce' [groom] to "Khitmatgar" [butler/ mess servant]. Again, much information yet to be identified on these men and their role in maintaining the Raj! The medals used to be scorned by most collectors, as 'non-combatant awards' but personally I don't see a great deal of difference between the soldier who fights off an attack by hostile tribesmen and the stretcher bearer who goes out to recover his body under fire from the same foes. Or between the trooper, private or gunner threatened by random 'harassing fire' along a communications road and the Chinese labourer who puts up the poles for field telephone wires on the same stretch of road. My tuppence worth and more! Peter

The crossed daggers are very interesting, as the Victorian soldier would not have carried anything like that as part of his weaponry - still using long bayoneys until after WWI. They look like special forces fighting knives, which is just plain odd! Very intriguing. Please do let us know if the badge forum can ID them for you. Peter

Half pay was a form of what we would consider 'reserve service' and a way of keeping former officers around between wars. Most of the Royal Navy officers went on half pay after the Napoleonic wars and never served at sea again, as the fleet was cut back immenseley in 1815 and after. Half pay was not strictly a pension, however, and ended with the death of the recipient. Records of half pay officers would have been kept by the War Office. I have no idea where they are now but Stuart or one of our UK members may know.

The 1-5th Bengal European Cavalry regiments wre a stop gap measure - created in 1857 after the Indian Mutiny, in which 7 of the ten or so Indian Bengal cavalry units mutinied. Only three of the Bengal Eur. units actually existed [other than on paper] and all were taken into the British Army in 1861, probably broken up and parcelled out to existing cavalry units. It was quite common for British officers after leaving the army to be referred to by the highest rank they attained, so Captain Hornswoggle of the Princess Hohenzolleren Fore and Fit Regiment of Foot, would go by "Captain', even official documents like marriage licences and death certificates reading "Captain Hornswoggle, late of Her Majesty's .... Regiment". As to the children conceived while Daddy was in foreign parts, I won't decend to the humour SOME people on this list resort to but point out that Indian Army officers got a full year of leave as often as every eight or ten years and some wives did travel out with thier spouse to far corners of the Empire. If he was 1st European Cav. he was likely employed by John Company or some other commercial enterprise prior to joing up and, if an officer in that unit may have been of sufficient social stature to have his family with him, as many of the 'commercials' stayed out in India for decades. Very unlikely that the 19th were stationed in Australia that late, if ever, but as he seems to have had a wandering foot anyway - he was in India first - the retired captain may have taken his army back pay and decided to try for a new life Down Under. Tuppence worth! Peter

Sarge Welcome to the GMIC! He's right, gwentleman, the 21sters have done tremendous work - absolutely amazing how much info. a diligent bunch of people can pull together from that far back, mostly by countless hours poring over old paper. The site is well worth a visit for anyone with interests in WWI. Peter

The rank goes back several centuries but by WWI was a senior warrant officer - equivalent to a Staff Sergeant Major - in the Ordnance, Service and Transport corps. Apparently they exist today as well and are Warrant Officers 1st Cklass - RSMs and standing at the right hand of God to we sprogs one!

I'll bite! What makes you say 'brooch mounted', Paul? Maybe I need new glasses - or a new brain - but the marks I'd expect aren't leaping off the screen at me. Peter

Blacksmiths using traditional tools and methods also use beeswax to seal wrought iron. While the iron is still warm from the forge it is rubbed with a lump of beeswax which, of course, melts and even soaks in to some small degree, thus inhibiting rust. It also has the advantage - on iron or leather both, I think, that it can be removed again, something professional conservators are very big on, as doing anything to an artifact which can't be undone is strang verboten! Peter

Yes, the POW Central India Horse had the plumes on crossed lances as a headdress badge and collar dogs from 1906. On amalgamation it was numbered and called the "21st King George's Own Central India Horse" from 1922-1937 and I believe kept the POW plumes until 1937, when they were replaced with the "CIH" cipher over crossed lances. With the exception of a half dozen short lived units [40th to 46th Cavalry] raised for WWI, it was the junior regiment of Indian cavalry, as had been the 38th and 39th pre-amalgamation. As Jonas says, it is now a unit of the Indian Armoured Corps and given the attitude of the old regiments of the Rayj, especially the cavalry, its just possible that they still carry the POW plumes somewhere on their kit. Peter

Fantastic is right! Definitely on my list of 'must-sees' when next I cross the big pond. Congratulations on a grade A exhibit! Peter

Agreed that the word wasn't necessarily meant to be offensive as used 'back in the day' [to quote my students]. It originally came from Arabic and was picked up by the Europeans from Arab slavers, who used it to refer to their captives. The literal translation is 'unbeliever' or, as Hollywood would have it, 'infidel'. So, as used by Arabs both offensive and descriptive, but for others merely the latter. My wife was friends with some Pakistani Muslim students when we lived overseas [Nigeria] and one used 'kaffir' of his roommate, who never made it out of bed for the pre-dawn prayers. Acceptable from a friend, fighting words from anyone else. She also learned - and nearly caused a coronary by repeating - the word generations of Tommies serving in India rendered as 'barnshoot'. Again, used 'affectionately' but in reality the same as a compound English word that almost rhymes with 'mother's trucker'. Here endeth the lesson. Sorry - its the teacher in me! :rolleyes:

Sounds like a clear case of trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's... um, ear. :cheeky: