peter monahan

I agree with Mervyn: a 'rampart gun' rather than a whaler. harpoon guns had a far larger bore in my admittedly meager experience, to hold the butt of the Harpoon. Such things were used on boats, in small forts and, as suggested even as mobile "artillery" .69 calibre seems huge to modern shooters but I regularly fire a .75 calibre "Brown Bess" musket without discomfort or difficulty. Loaded with ball it has about the same kick as a twelve bore shotgun - nothing to alarm a camel, I wouldn't think. Looking at the style of the piece I'd also say it was made in Europe, not Asia or the Middle East. There were hundreds of small arms makers in the nineteenth century, some of whom worked almost exclusively in the export trade, making "Dane guns", for example [smooth bore muskets for the West Africa trade, first flintlock and eventually percussion]. More shots, especially of the lock plate and breech, might help pin down the maker. My tuppence worth! Peter

I've just done some quick digging myself re the mutiny question and found a fascinating site: a book review of a book entitled "MUTINY". Here is some of the review: The official preference for deploy the B.W.I.R. as labour battalions, rather than front-line troops, and the rising tide of discriminatory treatment could characterise the history of the regiment, in the words of Lieutenant-Colonel Charles Wood-Hill, as a "heartbreaking tale of humiliation and disillusion." One of the B.W.I.R.'s pivotal advocates, whose lobbying contributed to the eventual front-line deployment in Palestine and Jordan, Wood-Hill was a long-serving officer of the West India Regiment6 before the war. He was appointed commanding officer of the first battalion B.W.I.R. and documented the regiments tribulations in a brief sketch circulated to the War Office, Colonial Office and West India Committee. Mutiny does not address the more ambiguous, reactionary side of Wood-Hill's character which resulted in his striking the men under his command (Cipriani 1940). It was an obsession with military honour and discipline, less a desire to redress racial discrimination, which drove his championing of the B.W.I.R. As he made clear in a letter to the West India Committee after the war, Wood Hill firmly hoped military discipline had made Jamaicans immune to political radicalisation.7 This was indeed a vain hope, for while West Indian soldiers were prepared to accept authority and endure hardship in exchange for post-war recognition, they were not prepared to suffer indignity and discrimination. On 6 December 1918, shortly after the Armistice, Lieutenant-Colonel Willis, commander of the ninth battalion B.W.I.R., based in the port of Taranto, Italy and notorious for his harsh approach to discipline, was surrounded by angry soldiers when he ordered them to clean latrines used by Italian labourers. The men dispersed quietly, but the following day, the ninth and tenth battalions refused to work. The men were disarmed, but not before unrest had spread to other battalions. War Office secret telegrams reveal a battalion of white troops with a machine company were requested to forestall any further unrest among the West Indies battalions. On 17 December, 60 West Indian sergeants met to form the Caribbean League, which although short-lived due to internal divisions centred around island identities, marked a pivotal moment in the emergence of nationalist movements in the Anglophone Caribbean. Mutiny reports the memorable and oft-cited slogan emanating from a subsequent meeting of the League, "that the black man should have freedom and govern himself in the West Indies and that force must be used, and if necessary bloodshed to attain that object." These are the words that struck fear [End Page 228] into the Imperial establishment, and perhaps no wonder so shortly after the Soviet Revolution. But it is also important to recall the more modest aim, "the Promotion of all matters conducive to the General Welfare of the islands constituting the British West Indies and the British Territories adjacent thereto."8 This was a distinctly social democratic agenda, but one which British Imperialism and the West Indian plantocracy would find impossible to meet in the post-war economic crisis. Court martials of the alleged mutineers were held before the New Year with the apparent ringleader, Private Arthur Sanches receiving a death sentence commuted to twenty years imprisonment.9 The attitude of the British military hardened in the wake of the mutiny at Taranto. Culminating in the "Reign of Terror" (Cipriani 1940) instituted when the base commandant at Taranto was replaced by the South African, Brigadier General Carey Barnard. Eugent Clarke recalled how the men were barred from recreational facilities, "You couldn't even go to the gate, let alone into town ? he was a rough man." In general, the attitude of the West Indians' erstwhile white comrades changed. Gershom Browne reported how "they didn't seem to want any attachment with us ? we had always seemed to get on good together in Egypt." An anonymous black sergeant complained to the Colonial Office that the men were treated "neither as Christians nor as British citizens, but as West Indian niggers." The military and colonial authorities were anxious the B.W.I.R. should be demobilised as rapidly as possible and most of the regiment "never saw Blighty," nor attended victory parades. On their return home, the authorities dispersed the veterans to their parishes so quickly that, as Eugent Clarke remembers, "they never gave us a welcome." http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/caribbean_studies/v036/36.1.smith.html Also, a site for the "West Indian Returned Servicemen's Assoc.": http://westindiaregiment.org/history.html

I have to agree - patriotism is a strange thing by times. In fact, I'm surprised that the Regiment lasted as long as it did, given that in it's earliest form it was composed largely of slaves who were 'bought into' service by the British. Nevertheless, the fought valiantly in many of the colonial scraps, especially in West Africa, and had, as a unit, nothing to be ashamed of. Now, what was the reference to "mutiny" about? Peter

Wonderful, though it leaves me going "D'oh!", as I actually own a couple Tuareg items including a knife with a wide spatulate end on the sheath, though the blade is a simple poiniard shape. I met many Fulani while in Nigeria, though none whom I recall carrying spears. They, like the Masai of east Africa, are nomadic herdsmen, though these days the wives and 'piccins' (kids) go ahead by taxi as the men and boys and cows follow the rains and the new grass up and down the west coast of Africa. Actually, up and down is a misnomer. Toward and away from the damper coast, which in Nigeria happened to be north and south. The Tuareg, back then (1978-80) were in the 5th or 6th year of a 7 year drought in the Sahara and had come south when the camels died to look for a living. However, as the males don't do any manual labour - there's a hereditary slave caste for that - they were somewhat limited as to employment prospects. To proud to beg, they usually worked as watchmen and, believe me, NOBODY robbed a compound guarded by Tuareg. They all carried (not wore, carried) either swords or whips, the latter made from a yard of 3/4" stell cable tipped with a lead ball the size of a gold ball and covered in leather. The Tuareg equivalent of the policeman's "non-lethal force'. You'd just WISH you were dead! Thay also held hands a lot - male and male - but, oddly, no one ever hassled them about it! My fondest memory of Tuareg is sitting outside a building in Nigeria (they were on duty) sipping mint tea and listening to the Voice of America, which broadcast in "Special English" - speaking veeeery slooowlyyy for non-native ears. "Tonights toopiiic is treee faaarmiiing in Orrreeeggooon." Too funny! Enough natter! Glad you've pinned down the spear, Brian . Veeerrryyy niiiicceee!

Yes, the King's Troop still do too but, to be a tiny bit pedantic, aren't they Royal HORSE Artillery? And Do they not wear a red bag rather than the blue? I actually put on a RHA tunic and busby for a costume party [30 years ago, before my chest fell 18 inches to my waistline] and that's my recollection. Peter

Museum curators - one of whom I aspire to be some day - would scream in horror :speechless1: at the notion of ANY chemical treatment, no matter what the package says about "harmless" to silk, wood, babies, etc. Typically, new acquisitions of cloth, leather or wood received by a museum are placed in a freezer for anything up to 3 weeks. I'd say a minimum 7 days, not 72 hours, just to be safe. Then winkle out any dead bugs, eggs, larvae and 'frass' (bug s**t to the non-entymologists ) visible - using a good magnifier helps. Finally, store in a place where they won't get exposed to more wildlife. Bugs is what museum people have nightmares about! Good luck. Peter

Pat I can't vouch for their expertise - I know zero about SS stuff, but others may wish to comment - but there is "the other site", which is specifically for Wehrmacht and SS gear. Have you considered posting yr query there? [Wermacht-Awards.com] Peter

Brian I've seen one like it in a book and I'm certain it's African but d****ed if I can recall from where exactly. I'll look for the book or have the missus slap the back of my head to help me remember!. Peter

"What do you mean counterfeiting? You guys don't make three dollar bills!" - punch line to an old cartoon. I also recall, many eons ago, when Canada first issued the "coloured" (read "colourful") bills, the $20.00 note being the first. Some wag spent a half day on the street trying to get people, including an on-duty PC, to accept one, but with no luck. Stupidity cuts both ways. :rolleyes: As to hanging, bobbing 'bit's and so on, I have a clear (though still possibly incorrect) memory of a medieval case which popped up in a course on the history of English crime and criminals. The wife of the house was issuing false coin. was in fact notorious for it, but when the law showed up she simply pointed them to her husband. Poor weak females were deemed incapable of such sophisticated crimes back then. Couldn't vote either. The punishment for debasing the king's coinage back then? Having molten lead poured into your ears. Ouch! :speechless1:

If there are minatures clearly attributable to pre-1838, then they must go back almost as far as medals themselves, as the service medal (as opposed to wearable honours and awards) don't go back too much further than that. There are, apparently, Elizabethan naval medals from c1650 but the Waterloo Medal was Britain's first "campaign medal". That is to say, the first British medal expressly made for issue to ALL the participants of a battle or campaign. Not strictly relevant, perhaps, but the use of minatures may have been spurred at least in part by the fact that early campaign medals were typically sewndirectly to the owner's tunic. This would have been awkward for officers who owned more than one tunic and chose not to buy up the medals of others so as to have one per uniform. Which later practice, BTW, is the explanation for at least some name erased medals. I read, years ago, the details of court martial charge against a time-expired British private in the Victorian period (1870ish?) who sold his gong, only to have it "found" on the uniform of a serving NCO. Interestingly, the second owner does not appear to have been charged. My tuppence worth! Peter

Nice work, gentlemen! Poor bugger! Joined the Army as a 'causal labourer' (read 'unemployed' or 'semi-employed'), had a fairly ordinary wartime career and got discharged 'unfit' as a result of being gassed. I wonder if he 'quit fatigues' because he couldn't breath well enough and got gigged by an unsympathetic NCO. I also wonder how he made out as a civilian with no particular skills and a half a set of lungs! Perhaps he applied for the gongs in 1920 and wore the War Badge in an attempt to improve his odds of getting a job. I know that's what I'd have done! No great wonder that socialism made such strides in the UK after the war!

I'd agree with the notion that the Star (mullet, to get technical) is either a "charge" on a coat of arms or a regimental symbol. What the heralds call "differences" or "cadency marks", are meant to go onto (superimposed) a complete coat of arms, so that a group of individuals wearing otherwise identicals arms could be distinguished. In other words, Dad wore the full coat and so did the sons, Number 1 son with a "label", Number 2 a crescent moon, Number 3 a mullet and so on. I believe there are 8 differences recorded, at least in theory. Wearing or bearing simply the label didn't mean anything in particular, as the various symbols appeared, singly or in groups, on various coats of arms As stand-alones, the star, crescent moon and so on have different meanings related to the people who wore them. Keep in mind too that much of the lore of British heraldry was improved on by those inveterate inventors the Victorians. People who wore arming coats over their armour devised various ways to identify themselves to friends and foes in battle but the complex system with hard and fast rules reached its epogee long after close helms and plate armour had died out - much like the way in which the Victorians tidied up clan tartans during their love affair with all things Scottish! Like so many other things, coats of arms were raely discussed and diseccted by those who used them, they just 'were' so, sadly, one cannot deduce too much definitively from mullets, martlets, labels or unicorns. Peter

Yes, lovely lovely work! You have great talent in this field. I too am interested in the time investment. Curiosity, not any intention to copy yr work - I know my limits. Peter

And speaking of "other memontoes", the Canadian War Museum had (still has, I suppose) not only a chocalate tin but a wool scarf allegedly knitted by Vickie herself and sent out with the Christmas treats to a Canadian serving in South Africa. At least, that's what I think I remember from a visit many eons ago when I still had all my teeth, all my hair and most of my mind. Has anyone else heard of/seen such things? Peter

The London Gazette is nopw available on line. The search engine is, according to those who use it a lot for WWI stuff, not 100% reliable, but I've found it very useful and all the despatches from the 1812-14 War that I've seen list at least officer casualties by name. Bracket the date of the battle - say Jan 30 - August 30 1815 and look for "Shaw" + "$th". He may pop up in the body of the despatch - the famous "Mentioned in Despatches" or in one of the appendices to the relevant despatch. Good luck! Peter

The complete Oxford English Dictionary does not offer an etymology for 'cop', simply that it is slang. However there exist in many parts of the English speaking world a minor industry in "folk" [ie false] etymologies, many of them revolving around acronyms. However, since acronyms depend for their meaning on literacy in both the writer and the reader they are mainly a 20th century phenomenon and any purporting to come from an earlier time - "golf", "posh" and "f.u.c.k." come to mind - should be regarded with grave suspicion! And, in this case, the descent from Latin through French and Dutch, not only matches the origins of many English words but makes perfect sense as well. Remember Occam's razor: barring contrary evidence, the simplest explanation is the one most likley to be true! My tuppence worth Peter

Well done, Michael! The most militant of my ancestors was, apparently, a Private in the 21st Battaslion, CEF who joined in 1916, saw six months service in the trenchs in 1918 and was invalided out to England (and late getting back to Canada) with Pleurisy. "Cause of Ilness" in his records reads simply "trenches". I'm envious of your distinguisehd forebear! Peter

Helen and Mervyn Lovely pieces undeed! However, I have to disagree with the description of #3 as 'shooting stick' type handle. First, it looks to be far too small for any normal human buttocks - to me at least, scale being a bit tricky. Second, the style, especially the asymmetric shape, is very reminiscent of some South Asian blades, the Malayan 'kris' for one. Might it have been collected there for or by the General? Interesting side note, BTW, in an age when weapons are less and less acceptable in private hands: a friend who works in the film and televison business has a sword stick in his shop, one he made, and tells me that Canadian law has recently changed to make their possession legal, though of course carrying one is still a crime. Until recently any conealed blades were classed as "prohibited weapons" here, much like fully automatic guns. That is, there was no licence or legal way to own one, with a tiny number of exceptions most of which involved the authorities simply ignoring them if they were judges to be in safe hands and for a good reason (museum displays, for e.g.) I recall, in fact, getting off a Dutch charter years ago at Toronto Airport behind a chap who'd brought one back from Europe somewhere and watching the Customs chap snap the blade right off at the hilt, give the handle back to the owner and tell him he should consider himself lucky not to be charged!

Very nice, Bear! Where do you find all these things? Peter

Andy Very nice. Glad I was wrong about it! They must be fairly scarce - small original issue and not as 'sexy' as some of the iother units so perhaps not kept as carefully. Peter

Steen First rate! I use the Internet Archive myself for early 19th century sources but hadn't thought of looking for Hart's there! Thanks for the tip. Peter

I can only echoe others in saying "Fantastic!" Clearly a labour of love.

Awesome collection, Kjell! And I must confess - at risk of starting a series of semi-political posts - one of my first thoughts was "Gee, he must live in the US." because I wasn't aware on anywhere in Europe where position of a Machine Gun was legal! And you had two? Wow! Peter (from Canada, where we can't own machine guns either)

On the other hand, the British telephone arm of the Postal Service is or was, I believe, called "British Telecom", which would explain the word and the lightning bolts. My vote is for either somebody's 'dress up' hat or an attempt by a flea market merchant to sell two items which aren't related but might, to the untrained eye appear so. Peter

Also by "Old Nosey": "The scum of the earth, enlisted for drink and officered by gentlemen." And, somewhat less favourite, in response to be twitted about having been born in Ireland: "Not everything that comes out of a stable is a horse." No, ya pompous ould spalpeen, some av it is horse s**t! (Sorry, my Fenian side peeking through there. )