Eric Gaumann

Good job, Nick! You did great bringing the story alive!

Shishkov seems to place it in that time frame. Schmitt seems to have it within a block of mostly 45/46 awards. Those are my only two references. Most probably this was made in 1945 (or even before), and possibly awarded for an actual war-time deed. But what if it's not? Do I want it in my strictly GPW-era collection? Maybe I'm being too picky? PS. my Glory3 is 633k. That probably does not fit my criteria, does it? ....

>#288894 ...1946? >Or maybe somewhere around 1960? Yeah. Late war, or thereafter Not nearly optimal but the price is right.. >I agree, original piece with replaced screwplate. Thanks, Auke. I appredciate your help. Man...I want an OPW1....

I like it but as usual I'd love some other opinions. Do you see any blemishes other than the 12 o'clock enamel? Do you think the screwplate is original silver? I do not. ;( Many thanks, comrades!

Gents, Ya see anything wrong with this?

Thanks, Nick! I appreciate your time and effort.

Yes. Can we please stay on topic? Please? I created this thread hoping we could get some discussion about authenticity issues; my own certainly, but others as well. While I'd be more than happy to opine about what I consider "rare" I would much rather do it in a seperate thread. Heck, I'd be more than happy to create a 'Rare' thread and cut and paste the replies from here to there. But what I really want in this thread is help with this particular Belgrade. I've got money to burn, and an opportunity to spend it, and all I see is talk about rarity of shovels, hurt feelings, smileys and long screwposts. Can I get a little help, PLEASE??????

Four more images of the Belgrade in question: Anybody see anything they do not like?????????

Quick update, the seller just wrote me: "Hi Eric, yes- I can give you the standard 2 weeks (14 days) return no questions asked, from the day you receive the medal, despite that it is against my official policy (based on the previous buyer's abuse). This time should be reasonable for authentication, and also minimizes my "market time" losses in case you change your mind. Please let me know what exactly you'd like to see on the picture, and I'll scan it for you at a very high resolution. Best Regards," Now that is very accomodating and makes me feel a whole lot better about the situation. See, all it takes a little shift to go from bad to good.

A very wise man once said 'you must have a mutually agreeable return policy' to make a deal. With that in mind I wrote to the seller this note. "Hello friends. Would you accept a return on this item if I wasn't happy with it? Say like a 3 or 4 week period in which I could have it authenticated? Not that I doubt you at all; the rest of your items look good, and I am an experienced Soviet collector so I have a good idea of what I'm looking for. But having said that the Belgrade medal is heavily reproduced and even though I've gotten one positive response on a forum about this particular medal already I'd really like to have something to fall back on (the return option). I know as a buyer I have the Ebay buyer's protection deal but if worse comes to worse we'd both have to jump through hoops and it would be an acrimonious situation which I would just as soon avoid if possible. Will you work with me a little on this, please? Thank you, Sincerely, Eric... PS. If needed could you supply some more images, please?" Seems reasonable, no? Here was the reply: "Eric, I just added a few more pictures(to the auction), FYI. Best Regards," He totally ignored the main point of my post. I can only assume he absolutely will NOT accept any sort of return for any reason. Which is fine, after all it's his auction. Trouble is I can't bid on it because of our mutually exclusive stance on returns.

I know. I see all those 'speculators' on Aukro with their Shovel Braverys and CSMs and silver labour medals priced at twice the usual price just because they are "rare". I don't buy it.

Thanks! While I'd prefer a T1 I think I could live with this Type. Trouble is the seller is, at the moment, not accepting returns.

I like this one, do you? The front looks very strong, the reverse is maybe a bit soft.

Heck, I only own six RS. :)

Some more BM WTH moments.

The new edition: There's something to said for not cleaning *at all*, although the results show a fairly unworn medal, albeit without any enamel at all.

Good thought on the Guards option. But we'd just be reaching, even with research. Yes, both are heavily worn but it's so easy to switch suspensions. What if the owner had it on one of those cheap hinge-type pin attachement suspensions and a dealer switched it to an old and incorrect ribbon/suspension combination? BTW, I cleaned this medal hoping to find some enamel under the dirt in the lettes. No luck! Now it's just another clean medal with minimal patina.

No. And I'm considering replacing the ribbon.

The last medal still shows its orginal number, and that matches the 'hand stamp'. The middle one's number is obscured* by a hand stamp but what we can see of it it does NOT match. The first number's been mostly ground off* and been replaced by a hand stamp. What still remains does NOT match, again. It's possible the vet replaced missing awards with someone else's awards. I think that NOT likely. I highly doubt any kind of test. My best guess is an early, or low tech attempt at creating a group to match a booklet (or something else). * Never a good sign of authenticity. Also, the middle medal's original number *may* have been 80821. If so it's a travesty such a low numbered award has been destroyed.

Makes sense, but surely a waste of war materials as well.

I just did an image search on Aukro, what I like to think of and use as the world's largest and easiest to access collection of (mostly) good *images* of Soviet awards. I was checking mid to later numbered OG3s; 400k to 780k. The majority of them were indeed two piece suspensions. A few were obvious replaced suspensions but a small anomaly popped up as well; those in the mid-600k range did have a brass, one piece suspension. I saw 3 or 4 of them like that.Of course there is no way to know for certain that at one point a supply of one-piecers was made available and used in the 600k range but it could be possible. Also, above 699k almost all suspensions were two-piece agian, albeit using the later, three point pin attachment (not the earlier, horizontal pin placement). BTW, *What* was the reasoning for the inside piece in the two-piece suspensions???? What purpose did it serve? For function's sake a single layer does the job just as well and also takes less time and a lot less material to manufacure. Always wondered about that. PS. If anybody's got a worn BM ribbon, on any sort of suspension or even not, please keep me in mind. TIA

Well, there goes that theory... Thanks for the help, Auke, as always. How about my OG3; 663k number therefore late war issue. It's got a brass, one piece suspension. That's probaly correct, right? PS. If anybody's got a worn BM ribbon, on any sort of suspension, please keep me in mind. TIA

The latest addition to my collection is a nice, early BM. As you can see the ribbon is wrong. The ribbon seems to be as old as the suspension as both have heavy wear (the way I like it!) so I'm guessing they got switched at some point. I was assuming it was a VoG suspension but then I noticed it has a two-piece suspension and I've never seen a VoG on a two-piecer. Have you? I'm wondering if maybe it's a OG ribbon/suspension as it has the early style pin attachment as well?

Yes, the obvious ones I can recognize. But when it comes to leaves or berries, letter fonts, the edges and the texture(?) of the obverse I can only guess without somebody pointing out the faults.The ring is generally the only part that I can recognize as good or dubious.

If I can get one more 'OK' on this I'll take a shot at it. :)