John R

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My US Navy 1944 Mark II Mod 0 Bendix sextant for comparison.

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Attached are images of my sextant. It belonged to either U-873 or U-234, still doing a bit of research. Anyway, I am not sure how you know if it is a first or second type sextant for a start. I note that the sextants in Torpedo Los for the most part had different numbers on the index arm than the graduated arc. I assume that this meant the number on the arm was a control number and the number on the arc was a serial number for the sextant since it matches the certificate. My certificate is dated 27 April 1939. However I have also seen sextants with matching numbers, maybe they changed the system at some point. I also assume mine is aluminum, not bronze. But might as well post it to make sure. It is not that heavy and I do not note anything that strikes me as bronze which is the case with US Navy WWII sextants. John

The only material used to make a muetzenband was cotton, cellon, or gold wire. So you have a possiblility of three but in the case of Prinz Eugen, only cellon has been found. I forgot, this Matrosen-Stabsgefreiter rank sleeve insignia was inside the shoe-cleaning box when I bought it. John

Thorsten, It is impossible at this time to know when the Prinz Eugen muetzenbander were made, but I doubt if they made them on special order after the war just to wear across the Atlantic to the US. It is possible of course, like anything. I have seen "joke" muetzenbander made, maybe the name of the Captain or sailor on the muetzenband, misspelled muetzenbander are very common too. My personal feeling is that since the ship was commissioned on 1 August 1940, the muetzenbander were made before 1 Sept 1939 date when the named muetzenbander were supposed to be changed to "kriegsmarine". As we know, the named ones were used for quite some time after the start of the war on many ships, organizations and U-boats. This was especially true of the Narvik destroyers and U-boats, but they all finally switched over to "kriegsmarine" in due time. Another example is Blucher, commissioned 20 Sep 1939 and the crew was wearing this tally when this ship went down 9 April 1940. Same with Graf Spee of course, at sea when the war started. On the other hand, no examples of Bismarck or Tirpitz but it is my theory that Bismarck had the muetzenbander aboard when she went down. The reason is that she was commissioned on 24 August 1940 but was long in building, the keel layed on 1 July 1936. Plenty of time for these muetzenbander to have been part of the long shipbuilding checklist and just stored aboard. Again, only a theory since none have ever been seen in photos or elsewhere. There are also statements that photos exist of sailors wearing the muetzenband "Tirpitz" in a special ceremony, but I have not seen such examples but again, anything is possible. I do not think it was hard for the makers of these muetzenbander to quickly produce anything needed if required. You asked for front and back PE images. Attached. All PE muetzenbander are cellon as far as is known from existing examples. In addition, you asked if I had anything else from Prinz Eugen. Yes, a shoe-cleaning box with a lockable lid so that they could be attached to the outside of the kitbag. This was a gift to a US sailor from his German counterpart on the trip to the US. John

There are several areas I look at with this award and it looks fine in each. John

Thanks Monsun for that very important photo. Puts to rest some debate about the badge and is quite a contibution to the research of this badge. The badge above is indeed the accepted Japanese version of this war badge, stamped "sterling". I am not sure why a Japanese jeweler would mark it "sterling" but that was over 60 years ago and might have been a standard stamp worldwide for all sterling silver pieces explaining why there are no Japanese characters. In any case, there are just too many badges with very good provenance that look like that to not accept them as original in my opinion. However, they are very expensive to obtain. John

Are there any photos of the Japanese style Auxiliary Cruiser in wear? John

All known examples are cellon, which is synthetic cotton used after cotton was no longer used. Gold wire (metal) was a private purchase but again, no known examples exist. Mine attached, I believe very strongly that it is the same one as in the photo since they came together from the same sailor. I know of at about 5 others in collections in Germany. There must be more of course. I also know with certaintly that PE sailors gave their muetzenbander to US sailors who were learning from them how to sail the cruiser on the trip over to the States. Sort of a farewell friendship gift. Perhaps the PE sailors had more than one, I do not know. To me, it is amazing that the US crew was able to do this since the steam plant was unlike anything in the US Navy, but then again, PE broke down a number of times including on the trip over. High pressure plants were difficult to operate to begin with and naturally the German crew was used to it. Well, somehow it made it to the Pacific where it now rests. I am quite sure the US crew was glad to say goodbye. John

This is what I think also, as does Mike Kenny. Just no KM badges out there that are convincing by this maker. John

I have added this to my destroyer thread, but what about this from Internationales Militaria-Magazin, Nr. 67, Dez/Feb 1992, pages 36 & 37 (courtesy Mike Kenny)

Ex-Wernstein now known as Wiedman L/50 or 21 in a rectangle by Godet L/11 Juncker Beco

I am running a thread at WAF and GCA as many of you already know on this subject, but I would like to see if any of the members here that have not seen those threads can help me determine if these maker marks existed. They have been reported from time to time over the years, but I have not seen any photos to back these claims up. I would like to either prove or disprove that the below listed marks existed on the destroyer badge. I do have images of Beco, but the owner does not want them posted and I will honor that request. It does exist, but if we can find another image, that would be great. So if you have a photo/image or any information on these, that would be very helpful. Ex-Wernstein now known as Wiedman L/50 or 21 in a rectangle by Godet L/11 Juncker Beco

Yes, I do like this badge very much. Non-burnished top wing, thin neck, wire catch, 100% correct. John

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Gordon, You have an example of the U-boat frontspange die shot in your book. Two questions. First, were these shots ever faked to your knowledge? I see no reason why one would be faked, or possibly they were made to make fakes after the war. I do not know. Attached is an example posted on WAF, many conflicting opinions on it. Your book is referenced there also since you stated that both die struck and die cast shots would have flashing. Your take on this would be appreciated. John

Excellent observation Buch--I missed that completely, I have to admit. Thank you for your comments and detailed examination of this/these pieces. John

The "dots" are for the letters in the first name by the way. John

WAF has just posted a link to a German forum in which the member BassD explains why the sign of "??" is the company logo of E.Ferd. Wiedmann/Frankfurt. I have also posted this is the maker mark thread. John

WAF has just posted a link to a German forum in which the member BassD explains why the sign of "??" is the company logo of E.Ferd. Wiedmann/Frankfurt.

Giorgio, I have no idea about either of the above badges. They both look OK to me, but never saw either before. Where do you come up with all these one of a kind badges? John

Then this thread has a happy ending. John