John R

The cap looks OK, any idea what the multibar insignia might stand for. I do not have my references with me right now. John

I would agree working perhaps with Joe to produce such a book. John

Here are the measurements from 3 other GWL badges, all period: W - 48.9, 48.9, 48.3 (this one vaulted) H - 39.3, 39.3, 39.3 Wt - 17.8g, 18.6g, 18.3g These match what Gordon has in Torpedo Los and not the badge at the top. John

Here are the measurements of the badge at the top: Width: 47.0 mm Height: 38.3 mm Thickness (max): 2.8mm Wingspan of national emblem: 31.8 mm Weight: 18 gr. These are smaller than the dimensions given by Gordon in Torpedo Los which were: Width: 48.6 mm Height: 39.2 mm Thickness (max): 3.5mm Wingspan of national emblem: 33 mm Weight: 18 gr. So I am back to not liking this badge since it is a likely cast of an original IMO. The measurements were double checked by the owner so this is what they actually are. John

This seems to be the consensus at this point, thanks Gordon. John

Well, it is probable that this was just a poorly made badge in the first place. I am not seeing anything that leads to a definite conclusion that it is a copy at this point. Good on the right to compare. John

By the way, wait 70 years and see how much Iraqi war relics are faked. So, when you are an old man, you probably will have a million dollar collection you bought for pennies now and new guys will be complaining about how to tell if a honest to goodness Saddam Hussein beret is real or not along with an authentic pistol from one of his palaces. John

There are a couple ways to look at this of course Lorenzo. Reproductions are a plague for everything from stamps and coins to art and antique silver spoons. Go buy a 70s muscle car and you better have an expert there to check it out first. I do not think the war badges of the Kriegsmarine are too difficult assuming you have put in the effort, just like a stamp collector, to know the hobby. You can depend on dealers, at your risk, just like the rich depend on their favorite art dealer with predictable results. Or you can be a professional collector I guess. Then again, we have several good forums you can use and plenty of books for reference. The books do not help you develop a feel or an "eye" but at least start you in the right direction. So I do not think there is anything here to scare anybody off, but it does mean you have to be aware of what is going on with fakers before you put down a load of money on a badge that catches your eye at a show. It is a professional hobby now and that is just the way it is, probably going to get worse of course, but I still do not think the fakers can do it right quite yet in this area of collecting. Their target is the 98% of collectors they snag online or at shows that do not realize what is going on. Awareness is the key. Yes, I am not sure about the above GWL badge, but that just means I would not buy it. If it turned out to be real, OK, fine. I am glad. But I still would not take the chance based on what I see here and instead would wait for an example of this type that met my requirements. I have one already that does in any case. John

Front of badge. Possibly artificially aged? John

The holes I am talking about.

This badge was just posted on WAF but almost no comments yet. I think it is probably a fake, but not 100% sure. The shape of the catch, the way the catch is integrated into the badge, blobs inside the legs of the swastika, the head of the eagle is missing a piece and what looks like cast holes on the side of the badge does not look right. It is close though on first glance and not quite the same as the new fakes coming out of Germany for this badge. John

2

Maps

That is correct as was a Japanese medal made in Penang, though not a warbadge of course. John

My only example. A farily common one at that for a training boat, 777. John

Very informative thread by GMIC member Norm F. on WAF. You do not need to be a member at WAF to view it I think. http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451345 It is one of those nice research works that should be kept in a collector's notebook for reference IMO. Good work Norm. John

Does anybody have a photo of a sailor wearing the Gneisenau cap tally? I have not been able to find one in my records. Thanks, John

Most, I would say 90%, of the ebay Scharnhorst tallies are fakes from the HMS Belfast gift store sold there many years ago. Easy to spot, uneven ends. The rule with this particular cap tally is if it is cut to equal lenghts down to the letters, it is a fake. If it has uneven ends, it is a fake. The tally needs to be 110 cms or greater with even ends. I agree with Gordon on the valuation. However in this case, I would bump it up to 300 euros due to the provenance. John

Does anybody have a photo of a sailor wearing the Gneisenau cap tally? I have not been able to find one in my records. Oh, wrong subforum but I will repost the same question there. Thanks, John

Information

Last signature. I believe this one is: von Eichborn Not sure, John

Information

I am not able to post the document yet, but the relevant information is posted below the signature. I am hoping that a name can be deciphered from the signature, even guesses appreciated. John

Yes, they are pretty tough. Thanks for trying. I will post the remaining signatures now. John

Thanks Naxos. John