Phil Steele

That changes everything Chris. As far as documents are concerned you are only ahead of me by a mere 694 and I anticipate at this rate I will over take you by the year 3057. All the Best Phil

Quite a collection Chris and I am not about to embarress myself by quoting my own meagre stocks but put it this way you are ahead of me with EK2's by a mere 106 although that does not count the dozen or so I have on medal bars. . Still we have to start somewhere but seriously I do hope either yourself or some other learned 1914 EK collector will take the matter to task. And I agree 100% with what Robin said....I simply hate the idea of having to have my laptop with me whenever I am answering a call of nature due to a lack of printed matter. Phil

Thanks for the reply Chris. I do realise there is a large volume of work required to produce such a book or books. That said however, I would very much like to see any book published exclusively on the 1914 Cross and that also includes the documents. After many years bouncing around from one collecting theme to another I have settled down finally with collecting 1914 EK2's (and an occasional EK1). My collection is not large by some standards and I differ greatly from the bulk of collectors in that I have little or no interest in maker marks. Knowing who produced the item certainly aids in evaluation of the item but I am more interested in the historical significance of what the item represents. I am not endevouring to mock those who collect items purely for MM's, I am just stating my preference. I also delve into a few award documents for the 1914 EK2 so I would be very keen to purchase a reliable reference work on the subject. There is a plethora of reference books now available covering various items from 1939 to 45 conflict and I agree that it is time for equivalent pieces to be penned on the 1914 to 18 war. I realise forums such as this and others are an invaluable tool to the collector but I am somewhat old fashioned and would much prefer to read a book on the subject. Nothing better than sitting if your favourite chair at the end of a hard day, glass of port (or in my case strong tea) beside you and in the glow of a soft lamp reading a good book. I doubt if penning such a tome would make you rich but you would indeed have the gratitude of many a dedicated collector of the 1914 Iron Cross. I will buy any book you write on the subject. Phil

Some time back I saw (or thought I saw) some information that a book was being planned concerning the 1914 Iron Cross. I believe the authors were going to be Gordon Williamson and Chris Boonzaier. I am not a regular forum person so I have not kept up with the latest news (my fault) however, I would like to know if such a book is still being worked on and perhaps a projected time of publication if such a book is still in the planning. Thankyou. Phil

My point exactly...surely the profit margin would be very low indeed on such an item and the chance of selling bucket loads of them would be virtually nil. I would think.

I dont really see the point as genuine 1914 EK's are not what you consider an expensive item to collect. Most dealers in Germany sell them for 40 to 50 Euro. I can understand trying to fake high end items. It just does not make sense to me.

Thanks Gordon and Jens for your input. Look forward to receiving it and displaying the tunic. Best Phil

And the cap

Hi Guys, I have been away from collecting now for nearly a year and what I did have in my collection I had to sell unfortunatly. However, I am back on my feet again and have just made a couple of purchases I would like you opinions on. I dont have the items as yet as they are still in transit but I would like to know are the various badges attached to the jacket applicable. Could somebody tell me what the qualification badge is above the pocket and what unit the brustenhanger belongs too...(I think that is what they are called). In respect to the cap, would this be appropriate to display with the tunic. Thanks for your time. Phil

Well I did indeed learn something in this thread. Uwe you must understand my confusion and maybe this will help. During my years of collecting TR badges and medals I never heard this method or anybody catagorising their awards this way. All I ever saw was " Unissued" which to me says unawarded. Never have I heard it said Unissued or Unawarded so its classed a copy. Then again I have never been a prolific user of these or other forums so I could well have missed something. Phil

Fair enough...I will admit I dont know how the fakers operate or the cost of their over heads. The only point I was trying to make was as I said not every single item in his inventory is fake which was implied and I know this from experience. I never intended to try and defend the guy or sing his praise. Phil

All very true but when I purchased said medal bar I was not aware of him being a seller of such ill repute (fool me). And you can bet I will never purchase from him again. The point I am trying to make is that in amongst all the bad stuff is a genuine item. Saschaw I dont doubt some of his EK'2s are not the real deal as they are indeed faked probably by the same people who fake the 1870 and 1939 EK'2. However, in response to Wild Card and I am only speaking in general terms here, do you know of anyone who is quality faking inexpensive medals like the Oldenburg FA cross, Bavarian MVK 3rd class just to name two. I dont and I have yet to see one shown on any forums. You get you odd cheaply cast in lead example but these would never fool any collector. To me the cost factor in setting up dies to accurately reproduce such medals is not worth the cost involved. They are readily available and cheap to buy so why would you bother? And unfortunately from experience I do indeed know that some of his medals in the shoddy medal bars are the real deal.

I tell you what Ricardo if you want rid of it I will take it off your hands as it matches the one as displayed in the members gallery by David Gregory as a small medal bar with the EK. Which by definition is thus not an original medal bar. One thing I have learnt is that if am to stay in this field I will in future have to catagorise awards into the following: 1. Original Awards that were indeed awarded prior to the cessation of hostilities. 2. Awards that were not awarded in which case they are classed as non original (I still cannot get my head around this) but were available as replacements for lost, stolen or damaged original awards. 3 Fakes that being those made in backyard sheds or sweat shops in China, Pakistan or wherever and made to fool collectors. I tell you if I ever have to replace one of the medals I have been awarded due to it being stolen or whatever then heaven help the guy who tries to tell me I am not wearing an original award else he might find himself counting the clouds because he will be flat on his back. Phil

Uwe, I have never intended to put words into your mouth. As I said I feel it is in the translation. So let me get this right. You do not feel that Ricardo's medal is an awarded piece as you believe it was not made during the period 1914 - 1918. Uwe I agree with you on this, I always did. You however, say that it is not a fake which is where I and I think Ricardo are getting confused because to me to me a medal is either a reproduction (meaning a copy) or its not. I have never really heard of collectors labeling awards as Originals (that being awarded during the period of conflict). Non awarded pieces meaning those that were not awarded during the period of conflict BUT such pieces are not fakes. And lastly fakes. Have I got this right on is this another break down in the translation? As a newcomer to Imperial awards is this the normal method of labeling such awards? To me the award is either (1) genuine in that it was MADE (no reference to awarded) by German (or Austrian) companies who were contracted to make such awards and I dont really care about the time line. If that were so then none of us would have any 1914 EK's made during the TR era in our collections. OR (2) it is a fake made to fool anybody into thinking it is something other than what it is. In this case with Ricardo's Bremen......I believe it was made by such a manufacturer as described in the first description number (1) but who knows when...maybe 1920's or even 1930's. In my mind and because I judge things maybe different to you then I class the medal as Original.