Odin Mk 3

There is a bit of a black hole for some men as the Attestation Register starts 1869, the Register of Leavers starts 1889. So if someone joined 1868 say and left in 1888, they would have an 1887 medal but you wouldn't be able to pick them up in either set of documents. The only option that I'm aware of is hopefully you might get him through the Police Orders showing his departure.

MEPO 4/352 covers 1869 - 1876 (51491 - 60050) so sorry the Attestation Registers start in Feb 1869 at Warrant Number 51491. Your man Channing is a bit too early for these

Not quite sure whether Mitcham would have come under W Division (Clapham) or possibly neighbouring V Div (Wandsworth). Looking at the map it seems closer to Clapham than Wandsworth. Now it is part of Merton Borough with three stations at Wimbledon, Mitcham and Morden.

Keylock is a very unusal name, I could only find a couple of others of that name in the Met. There was also a PC Thomas Keylock Warrant Number 84176 who served in N Div (Islington) 27/06/1898 - 01/08/1919 and received the 1902 and 1911 Medals. He was dismissed for going on Strike in 1919 Given his first name is James Keylock's middle name it could be his son - checking out the censuses for 1891 and 1901 might confirm this. Here is your man in the 1881 census, looks like he was living in a Police Section House at Causeway Police Station in Mitcham then. Household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Thomas MC KENNA Lodger U Male 38 Ireland Police Constable Henry NEIGHBOUR Lodger U Male 26 Hammersmith, Middlesex, England Police Constable James LYNCH Lodger U Male 26 Carshalton, Surrey, England Police Constable James KEYLOCK Lodger U Male 24 Cirencester, Gloucester, England Police Constable George COLE Lodger U Male 23 Lawrenny, Pembroke, Wales Police Constable Alfred FLINT Lodger U Male 23 Kenilworth, Warwick, England Police Constable John QUANTRELL Prisoner U Male 30 Brixton, Surrey, England General Labourer (Out Of Employment) Alfred KNAPP Prisoner U Male 30 Kingston, Surrey, England Painters General Labourer (Out Of Employment) John COOPER Homeless M Male 28 Kiddington, Oxford, England General Labourer (Out Of Employment) Source Information: Institution "Causeway Police Station" Census PlaceMitcham, Surrey, England

Not much info I'm afraid - James Thomas Keylock original joined Y Div (Highgate) when he attested for the Met Police - copy of his signature below from the Attestation Register

I don't know about Leeds Police but most forces haven't kept the records for Specials - this is certainly the case for the Met Police and also my local Force, Wiltshire Police. Also I suspect that when many of the older city and town polices were amalgamated into the county forces there would have been a major cull of records in most cases. So again many records for Leeds City Police may well have been dumped. The only help I can offer is that I did note on one website about Secret Leeds www.secretleeds.com there is a section on old police stations and one comment has been made - 'there is a great book called Leeds City Police in the Research Department of Leeds Central Library'

I'm afraid not but you should be able to pick him up through the 1891 census fairly easily as he appears to be the only Met Officer with that name in 1891. Unfortunately I haven't got a subscription to download that from the internet. Hibberd must have died from some illness; I have checked and he was not killed whilst on duty. I have a friend / fellow collector in the Met who has the causes of death for some men who died from illness whilst still in the service. I will try to ask him, in slower time, whether he has anything on Hibberd. However today would not be a good day as he is rather pre-occuppied with other matters - he is the senior officier in charge of the policing of some place called Westminster Abbey. Not sure but I think there just might be something happening there today. Very nice medal by the way - doesn't look as if he ever wore it.

Warrant number 71940 William Hibberd. Joined 21/06/1886 as a PC in T Div (Divisional Number 343) and finished 13/11/1900 whilst serving as a PC in D Div (No 38R - so he was part of D Div Reserve). He actually died whilst serving. The 1887 medal (earned in T Div) and the bar (earned in D Div) is his sole police entitlement

Difficult to speculate what his 'crime' was. It must have been reasonable serious to have been demoted. The sort of pecking order for offences was: 1. Fine or reduction in pay 2. Transfer to another division at the same rank 3. Demotion to a lower rank (which invariably meant a transfer as well) 4. Required to resign (ie resigned or be sacked) 5. Dismissed Quite a few PSs were busted for not doing their job properly (ie not patrolling their allocated area to check on their officers on the beat, taking unauthorised breaks etc) I have one where the PS was busted for a whole host of things including taking unauthorised breaks, skiving off in a private premises, failing to patrol his officers, falsifying his beat records and what appears to be going into a pub whilst on duty. Sadly I can't get the extract small enough to post (and still be readable).

The photo of X Division was taken in 1913 which was the year after Insp Brown retired - hence why he isn't in the photo I'm afraid. I do have the 1902 Medal to one of the men in that photo - Insp Richard Rickett - in the photo (and for most of his career) they mispelt his name as Ricketts - it seems to only be spelt correctly in the Police Orders when he joined and when he retired. He is the fourth man from the left in the middle row. The Supt in the photo - James Olive - went on to be Deputy Commissioner - the first man in the history of the Met to go from PC to that rank. He already looks pretty old in the picture, he was actually 59 in 1913. He went on to serve for another 12 years and retired in 1925 after nearly 53 years service in the Met Police. Was knighted (KBE) just before he retired.

Just found your man Lynch was involved with two Old Bailey cases http://www.oldbailey...0-743#highlight http://www.oldbailey...9-783#highlight He was shown as 141 Y (Highgate) when he was promoted to PS (Police Order 8/2/1896) Hope that helps

Foo Fighter Re your Police Medals - to Lynch and check if it is Rowter (not Rowther) I can't find anyone with the name Rowther Warrant No 55494 PC Richard Rowter Joined 17/07/1871 Left 05/03/1894 Serving in W Division (Died while in service) Warrant No 65461 PC John Lynch Joined 21/03/1881 Pensioned 06/03/1906 Serving in W Division I can't tell you what the cause of death was for Rowter but Lynch was promoted to a PS (Sergeant) 07/02/1896 (and earned his 1897 bar as a PS in M Div) He then moved to R Div as a PS but on 13/11/1900 he was demoted back to PC again and moved to W Div (some disciplinary offence which will be in the Police Orders) L Div - Lambeth M Div - Southwark R Div - Greenwich W Div - Clapham

I didn't know whether any progress had been made with setting up this new Police History Reference site but I thought that one useful source of information is the Police Almanacs. These list the senior officers in the various forces and can prove invaluable if you are trying to trace the careers of specific officers. These are absolutely of no use whatsoever if you are looking for PCs, PSs and sometimes even Inspectors but can prove invaluable to find some more senior officers. I have access to a few copies including the 1951 edition, which is a key source for locating men who earned the Police Exemplary Service Medal with the GVI head. I would be prepared to work on producing a list of the officers and their forces if the site got up and running.

I looked in the 1951 Police Almanac and went through all the Welsh forces. Unfrotunately most don't show the Inspectors (no chance at all with a PC I'm afraid). However the Glamorganshire force does give a reasonable breakdown (and is relevant for Pontypridd) but could not find an Insp Dymond listed. In slower time I will go through the whole thing looking if he appears in another force but unfortunately not all inspectors are shown. Easier to find Supts and some Ch Insps.

I have absolutely no problem with you copying the information for future reference. I am always happy to try and answer queries from Forum Members about Met Police Coronation & Jubilee Medals if I can. Apart from other information from the Police Orders I do have copies of the attestation entries for Warrant Numbers 51491 - 100999 (does show the man's signature on joining and the division where he first served) plus the discharge entries between March 1889 - December 1922 if anyone wants something looking up.

Yes I'm sure your man is Warrant Number 67311 now that you have confirmed he has PC .... B Div on his 1887 Medal. Yes PC is Police Constable and PS is Police Sergeant. When he joined he started as a PC in S Div (Hampstead). His entry from the Attestation Register with his signature is attached below. He must have transferred to B Div (Chelsea) before 1887. Met Officers (Sergeants and Constables) also had a divisional number which they wore on the collars of their tunic and on their helmet plates. I can tell you that when he retired PS Stevens was number 1WR, the lower numbers were kept for Sergeants, the W is his Division, the R denotes he was part of the Reserve. Most officers worked on a beat with the Sergeant monitoring his Constables but a few selected officers were formed into a mobile reserve who did not work a normal beat. So if you ever find a photo of a Sergeant with the 1887 and 1902 ribbons on his tunic and 1WR on his collar it is probably PS Steven's picture taken just before retirement (which quite a few officers seemed to have done). When he retired he got a Class 1 Certificate for his service (= Excellent). Unfortunately I don't think there will be a service certificate for him in the National Archives but there will be some pension papers under reference MEPO 21. And that is about all I can tell you although he should appear in the 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses which will give a little more information about his address and family.

I have been told that only about 600 police officers received all 3 of these medals. Is that information accurate? No that information was stated by John Farmery in his excellent article on Police Jubilee and Coronation Medals in the OMRS Miscellany of Honours No 7 issued in 1985. He based that figure on the number of Met Officers who joined before June 1887 and retired after June 1911. Unfortunately he failed to take into account the fact that many retired officers rejoined for a short period to help with policing the 1911 Coronation, thereby qualifying for the 1911 Medal. I would estimate that the number who received all three medals (plus the 1897 bar) is probably nearer 1800. However it is still nice to get a set of all three medals as many have become broken groups, especially those to men who were awarded the 1911 Medal as pensioners. Often they didn't mount their last medal with the first two and in time the medals become seperated - I have a couple of broken groups like that where the 1911 Medal is missing. I am slightly perplexed by your comment all issued / engraved to P.S. J. STEVENS W. DIV. as I can't actually find anyone who would fit. First the 1911 Medal only shows the man's name and rank ie P.S. J. STEVENS. Also there is no J. Stevens who was a PS in W Div thoughout that period. There is a James Stevens who joined 11/12/82 with the Warrant Number 67311. He retired 14/12/1908 as a PS in W Div. There is also a pensioner James Stevens who rejoined in June 1911 with the temporary Warrant Number O3663 who went to X Div but is possibly the same man (there was also a A/PS James Stevens in X Div who left in 1908 who is the only other candidate). For the man with Warrant No. 67311 he earned the 1887 Medal as a PC in B Div, by the time the 1897 bar was issued he was a PS in W Div. He also earned his 1902 Medal as a PS in W Div. So you can understand my confusion. By the way B Div is Chelsea, W Div is Clapham and X Div is Kilburn. Would welcome more information on exactly how the medals are named.

Following on from another post on the 1911 Coronation Medals below is the roll for the 1911 Medal issued for the Royal Parks. It was also an attempt to see how easy it would be to include medal rolls in this forum. The roll has been copied from a type written copy, not the original and so there may be some transcription errors. A total of 119 Coronation Medals were issued with the Royal Parks reverse. The Royal Parks Police was amalgamated into the Metropolitan Police in 2004 with the exception of responsibility for Holyrood Park. Royal Parks London - Sergeants, Gate Keepers and Park Keepers J Ainsworth | J Bailey | T Baldwin | W Ballan | H Barnwell | J Baxter | I Bennet | A Bolton G Brown | J Bryant | A Burgess | J Burrows | W Chapman | E Chatterton | A Chowne | J Conners R Costello | A Cumner | W Darling | A Dick | J Donaldson | J Dunckley | G Earwaker | A Elsworthy W Evans | J Fitzgerald | G Frances | A Gethin | T Gittings | W Gould | A Gray | H Green J Grogan | G Hale | L Hammond | J Harrold | T Haughey | E Hayes | B Hearnden | J Hepworth H Hobday | A Jenkins | C Joiner | T Jones | T Kenney | T Kenny | G Kimber | J Kirby E Ladbrooke | E Lanchbury | D Langstone | H Laurence | W H Letford | J Lewington | W Lillycrop | J T Linksey R Loades | I Lodge | W McCrory | A Mackie | G Manton | C Miller | W Mitchell | C Mott G Orchard | W Paice | T Parker | T Payne | J Peel | W Petherick | C Phillips | J Powell W Radford | M H Stroud | E P Symons | J Teague | J Thompson | M Travers | T Wakefield | C Waterman A Watts | G Webb | Wedgebury | A White | J Wickenden | W Windridge | E Wolley | J Wright G Yeomans | R Young Royal Parks London – Supernumerary Park Keepers R Bond | W Bull | W Cameron | N Cheeseman | J Collins | S Dicks | H Drewit | H Franklin A Gurrn | T Lanford | H Langton | A Miller | H Muggridge | P Pinder | J Pippen | J Thorne A Trotter | J Tweed Holyrood Parks – Park Keepers J Burnside | P Cavanagh | J Dalgleish | A Deuchars | T Duncan | H Gray | J Gunn | W A Kerr J King | J Malone | T Needham

Sorry I hadn't realised that the C&B Roll actually existed and was at Kew. I do have a typed list of the Royal Parks Medals which presumably someone has copied years ago from HO 45/19196. It would be relatively easy for me to start a new thread and post that on here as it is quite short. Will see if I can do that this weekend. I'm still fairly sure that the C&B medals were not centrally named though, it would interesting to see the naming style on the one you have just purchased if that is possible.

I don't believe there is an actual centrally held roll for the C&B issue 1911 Coronation Medals. The naming of the medals appears to have been handled by the Met Police and they were invoiced for the naming of their own medals, the City of London Police, the London Fire Brigade and some other groups. However this did not include the County and Borough Issues which were sent out to the various forces unnamed, probably because there were such a lot of different forces around at that time and the medals were merely allocated to them on a quota basis (they got more medals if they actually sent officers to take part in the coronation celebrations). Those C&B medals found named must have either been done by the individual forces before they issued them or alternatively the recipient had his medal privately named. The naming of each medal cost 5d in real money (equates to 48 medals for £1 for those born after 1970s) and was done through a Mr Gillett who took over a year to name up all the medals issued officially named. That is why the style of Fire Brigade, SJAB, City of London and Met medals all look identical. That was a good find on e-Bay.

Yes that does look like the design of the new Canadian award because of the latin Pro Valori which got around having to put it in both french (????) and english (For Valour). I was fortunate to be able to handle all the VCs owned by the Wardrobe Museum (Wilts) and I have some photographs of them somewhere. I will try to find them and post some here. Incidentally the original medals were all displayed in the museum until relatively recently but have now been replaced with copies due to the very high insurance costs of displaying the originals; these are now locked away in a bank. With regards to the Hancocks VC 'copies' I don't believe it would be that easy to rename one to make it look like an original because of the way they have named the centre of the reverse.

The 1935 / 1977 Jubilee and 1937 / 1953 Coronation Rolls are all available on CD. They are just photographed pages of the rolls with just a basic index and so take a little while to search for the actual page. Also some pages are difficult to read as the binding of the book means that quite a few pages show the 'curvature' near the spine of the book. However they are very useful for checking out these medals when they come with a group. I had one group to a Supt which I had owned for several years without knowing his force until finally I identified his county force when a friend located him on the Coronation Roll. He knew an officer who had served in that same force and within a few weeks I had several photos of the man plus an outline of his complete career. All thanks to the 1953 Coronation Roll.

Herbert Henry Dean is shown on the 1953 Coronation Medal Roll as an Inspector and he was serving in the Met. There is no other recipient called HH Dean. I had a quick check in the 1951 Police Almanac and can't find him there (quite a few Chief Inspectors shown but not Inspectors) Then checked the 1957 Police Almanac in the hope that he had made Ch Insp, only to find that the 1957 edition only shows Supts! (most of the Ch Insps had been replaced with Supts). Also noted on your other post

Herbert Henry Dean is shown on the 1953 Coronation Medal Roll as an Inspector and he was serving in the Met. There is no other recipient called HH Dean. I had a quick check in the 1951 Police Almanac and can't find him there (quite a few Chief Inspectors shown but not Inspectors) Then checked the 1957 Police Almanac in the hope that he had made Ch Insp, only to find that the 1957 edition only shows Supts! (most of the Ch Insps had been replaced with Supts). That's all I can do for you

Re the naming - I have a number of stars and the majority are named like the example I have shown. However one is much more like your example to John Williamson, especially the inclusion of the lines the engraver used to ensure the letters were the same height. Given that these medals were named by by a number of different individuals over a period of nearly 20 years there are bound to be differences in the style. However the generic form is the same - ie first name, then initial, then surname. One the question of plating etc, only the centre section and crown appear to have been plated. I think the basic star itself was left as a bronze finish and any colour variations we are now seeing are probably a product of whether the recipient cleaned or refrained from cleaning his medal.