paja

Igor I have recently discovered that Griesbach and Knaus were producing only 4th and 5th grade of the St. Sava and that all of them can be recognized by the GK hallmark on the ring of the order. That means that your star must be Sorlini! My apologies. But I'm still not able to distinguish G&K from Sorlini by the looks of the Saint. Luckily there are those hallmarks to help us with that question. Best regards, Radmilo

Thanks for the pictures! I was in the middle of reply when you uploaded them, so I didn't see them before posting my reply. Guess that must be FS or silver hallmark there.

Greetings Obi and welcome to GMIC. I first want to congratulate you on your purchase. I hope that you do not mind that I have used these pictures from ebay. I haven't seen this model many times before and I just wanted to find out who is the producer. In the meantime I did some research online and I've discovered that this really is Sorlini. They have produced only 4th and 5th grade like this and they all wear FS hallmark on the ring. If I'm not mistaking hallmark can also be seen on the 3rd picture here.

Too bad that there are not many people like him today. A man honored by his workers and employees, people under him, is a man who really earned his respect. The badge was meant to be worn around the neck and I think that the star was meant to be worn on the right side of the chest. I also think that the order was worn only on special, ceremonial occasions. Best regards, Radmilo

One more. http://www.ebay.com/itm/130601031081?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

You are most welcome Oz, I'm glad I was able to help you a little bit. Great story, sounds like your grandfather was a very interesting man, you must be proud of him. Nice photo of Marshal Tito, thank you for sharing it with us!

Your grandfather must have been on some higher position when he was awarded Yugoslav flag 2nd class. Please don't forget to post some pics of the box too. Can't wait to see them. I've just stumbled upon this on ebay, but my opinion is that the price is far too high. http://www.ebay.com/...=item2576a9762c

You are welcome Oz. As far as I know those slots are only for ribbons. Miniature medals were not issued with the award itself, I believe you had to order them from the special Chancellery for orders. By the way there were three types of miniatures, I have the third, last and the most common type. In case you are interested this is how it looks.

Mine came originally with the order, but there where lot of boards with ribbons like this for all of Yugoslavian decorations. So sellers started dividing those complete sets and selling every piece individually. I've seen them being sold for not more than 10 dollars in Serbia. I also guess that you could buy them at those special shops for men in the service only. There are also lot of them without that metal application in the front. Good side of this is that they are not so hard to find and that they are not so expensive. But my opinion is that the ones that originally came with the order are more valuable even though they might look exactly the same. Best regards, Radmilo

Back side.

Greetings, As I am the first one to answer your question let me just first welcome you to GMIC. Sorry to hear about the robbery. The order itself is rare, according to some sources just somewhere around 1500 were awarded, mainly to diplomats. How many slots are there in the box? I have only seen boxes with 3 slots so far. I also have the 2nd class (only breast star unfortunately) and I have posted pictures of mine somewhere on this forum. It would be great if you could post some pictures of your decoration and the box here. Now to answer your question, this is what came in the box.

Ground forces 1955-1964

Here's the first one. Unfortunately the text under the part about hat badges 1942-1945 is not readable. In the lower-right corner is written: Taken from the book "Two Centuries of Police" by B. Bogdanovic (Original title "Dva veka policije").

Greetings, I've found couple of pictures on my HDD, haven't got a clue where I got them. Anyway I thought they might be interesting to you. Regards, Radmilo

Now regarding your question about the Takovo Cross. As you probably know order was introduced in 1865 by Mihailo III Obrenovic to celebrate 50th Anniversary of the Second Serbian Uprising against the Turks. In the beginning there were only Cross, awarded to living participants of the Uprising, and Silver medal which was given to the families of those who had passed away. In July 1876 Milan IV Obrenovic confirmed order, and then it had two grades, first, higher, to wear around the neck and the second to wear on chest. First grade was just larger in size than the second which kept the look of the original 1865 Cross. In January 1877 there were new changes, order now had three grades, Grand Cross on a sash with a breast star, Commander with a crown worn around the neck and Knight worn on chest. Third grade looked like 1865 Cross. After the 1877-78 war against the Turks new reorganization of the order occurred and then it had five grades. The last, fifth grade was the same as the 1865 Cross. In January 1883 new regulations instituted military division of the order with swords worn on red ribbon. Also that year was determined that the third and the fifth grade will wear MOIII monogram (to honor the founder of the Cross) and that the rest of the grades will wear MOIV monogram. In the end I am really not sure about the answer to your question. According to these regulations it would be logical to think that all orders had MOIV before 1883, and that after that year only 3rd and 5th grade had MOIII. That would also mean that ALL 1st, 2nd and 4th grade orders wear MOIV monogram which we know is not true. And the other way around (that before 1883 all grades wore MOIII) also does not correspond to reality! It would be great if someone who knows more about regulations and this matter in general tells us what's the catch with monograms. Regards, Radmilo

Paul, this topic is now almost exactly three years old but I believe that the reply #5 will answer your questions concerning the book. http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/40187-serbia-yugoslavia-orders-and-decorations-1858-1941/

You are both very welcome. The table is from the book "Serbian and Yugoslavian orders and decorations" by Pavel Car and Tomislav Muhić. Here is the first table from the same book. I hope that the author, member of this forum, would not mind, both tables are from the site of the publisher: http://www.militaria.at/Book.aspx?book=8857800&Language=en

Found some better quality pictures of the St. Sava variants from the book Serbian and Yugoslavian orders and decorations here: http://www.militaria.at/Book.aspx?book=8857800&Language=en

You are welcome Igor. When it comes to the 3rd type of this order it is pretty easy to distinguish Huguenin and Zimmermann from the rest. And also those poor quality orders are easy to recognize, they are all Sorlini. But G&K and the better quality Sorlini (on picture I'm uploading in this reply left of the Zimmermann) are confuzing me. I would be very grateful if someone could point out the main differences between these two variants.

Just slightly different but of the same producer (must be) is offered on emedals.com http://www.emedals.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=12485&category_id=493&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=11