J Temple-West

Having asked a few questions and raised a few points, regarding the differences between the badges in this thread, I feel it would be conducive to the discussion to supply a link to a previous discussion on the subject.. so here it is. I have to say.... it makes interesting reading and has certainly broadened my understanding of this rare badge. http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...=juncker+glider Thanks to Mike for pointing me in the right direction. wub.gif

Hi Mike, Having seen examples of both types ( #7 & 12) in both early metals and later zinc, I?ve always assumed that both types were acceptable. I base this on the ?Juncker? tendency to use multiple dies in the production of all other badges. Putting aside, for a moment, the examples that both you and TC have posted, which must be considered as being the earlier of the two, what is your opinion of the other type (gut feelings allowed)? We have one example that comes from a group (of course, never a 100% guarantee of originality), the other (Rick?s), which looks like Francois', (hard to tell from the Picture) has a nice crisp wreath, good reverse set-up and what looks to be, the correct maker mark ( again, hard to see). I can understand wanting to acquire the #12 type, as it?s the most desirable, but if there are doubts about the other type? I, for one, would love to know. An interesting point ? The exact same badge that Rick has posted appears in the latest D.N price guide. As you say? a sumptuous feast for thought. :food-smiley-004: PS: Regarding the PM problem... I'll send you a PM as a test, it may well clear the gremlins. If not, I'll get Nick on to it.

Very nice badges, all... If only I could find one. jumping

"Do you have the other documents of this guy" Hi jacques, There is a little story regarding this guy's documents... I obtained the 'Urkunde' from an auction, with it were his ID card and pass into the German Embassy (I think this is where he worked). For some idiotic reason the seller listed the documents seperately.. I placed a high bid on all three items but was sniped at the last second and only won the 'Urkunde'.. I even contacted the winners of the other two doc's... no luck. I have the two other doc's, on disc, somewhere.. I'll see if I can find them.

Another 'Legion Condor' doc....

Again, Wayne.. Impossible to give an honest opinion on this piece, just on the pictures supplied. I?ve done my best to blow them up, change the colour, sharpen them, etc. Still, all I see is either a much worn original, or a very soft-looking cast copy. The rivets are certainly not typical for 'Juncker' (Going on the overall wear, could be replacements?) These ?800, Juncker? badges do exist. Some think them to be fantasy, some do not. I personally have no problems accepting that ?Juncker? produced solid silver badges and have seen both Pilot and Radio Operator/Air Gunner badges stamped with both maker name and 800 silver content marks. Being marked by C.E Juncker, we must assume that these badges were made at the factory, as opposed to being a jeweller made pieces, as they retain all the characteristics and correct maker mark of the standard series, the only additions being the ?800? mark and the pin locking device (something we must bear in mind as being favourable, when looking at yours). But we need to see BIG, clear pictures?. I have to say that, even then, it could come down to measurements and weights, as so often happens when dealing with originals Vs fakes, especially with exotic pieces such as these. I know the process takes time, there?s never a quick answer, but you never know?you could have a very rare piece. So, it?s over to you?.

Promotion document to Helmut Gericke.

That is a nice one, Gerd. The same service for both men.. Probably from the same regiment.

Many, many thanks, Rick.. Now to find his documents for EK1/2, Honour Goblet, DKiG + the Goblet itself. Phew..

Rick, Research has begun.. Looking at the group, the first thing that springs to mind.... Either the group is incomplete or, if complete, seeing that he only received the bronze clasp (20 operational missions), he didn?t make it to his 60th operational mission (silver clasp)..

Oberfeldwebel Erwin Heinemann.

Mention in dispatches.

Promotion document .. Dated: 1st May 1941. Signed by Maj Gerhard Kopper. Gruppenkommandeur. Aufkl?rungsgruppe 123.

Document (Urkunde) for Front-Spange f?r Aufkl?rer in Bronze. Dated: 23July 1941. Signed by Generaloberst Friedrich Keller.

A small but interesting set of documents to Oberfeldwebel Erwin Heinemann who served with the 2./ Aufkl?rungsgruppe Ob.d.L. (Aufkl.Gr.Ob.d.L. : Aufkl?rungsgruppe Oberbefehlshaber der Luftwaffe. The Reconnaissance Wing of the Commander in Chief of the German Airforce) and was mentioned in dispatches for his courage & bravery whilst on a mission over Glasgow in 1941. In short, during the reconnaissance mission, Heinemann?s Ju88 came under attack by two fighter aircraft. These fighters made five passes and as well as knocking out one engine, they hit the Ju88 with a total of 250 cannon rounds. Even though Heinemann?s aircraft was seriously damaged, he continued his mission and completed the task of photographing potential target sites. On the return flight to his base in France and still being over Britain, his controls seized. This plus the fact that he was flying on one engine, forced him to drop to an altitude of 800ft.. At this height, Heinemann had to negotiate concentrated antiaircraft fire from coastal batteries. Heinemann fought to keep his aircraft in the air (?with an arm of Iron &steel?), and after a nerve wracking flight lasting five hours they finally reached France. On finding a level piece of ground, Heinemann had to crash-land the aircraft as the landing gear had been put out of action. On removing the photographic equipment, it was found to badly damaged by shell fire but the film itself was intact. Heinemann was promoted for his efforts. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks to Dave for kindly letting me have this document group. Document (Urkunde) for his pilot qualification. Dated : 9th March 1940. Signed by Generalleutnant Gustav Kastner-Kirdorf

Reverse.. Large 'M' in the word 'Memellandes'... Smaller 'm' in 'Marz.'

There has been a lot of debate on the ?Memel Medal?. Due to its rarity, it has been heavily faked, some well done, some not so well done. The main point of contention seems to be with the type that leans away from the accepted type, the example with the small ?m?? I m o, There are original versions with large ?M?s?, but the fakers seem only to have copied this type, hence the difficulty? If you want to be absolutely sure of an original, choose the type shown with the smaller ?m? in the word ?M?RZ?

Hi Mike, You?ve touched on a subject that has also had me pondering for many a year.. We have references to the proposed institution of the badges in the ?Luftwaffen-Verordnungsblatt (the official orders of the Luftwaffe), we even have descriptions of how the badge was to look + dimensions, so I can only think that there must have been a set of designer master artworks, for each badge, that the individual company?s die-cutters worked from. It?s too much of a coincidence that all maker examples look so similar, same amount of feathers per wing, positioning of the talons, number of Oak and Laurel leaves on the wreath, etc. So, somewhere, there?s a file with a set of these artworks, in a collection, or official archives, just waiting to be found.... Something I?d love to see..

Not the one on K.W's site, Jan... the week before on Carsten's.. Not a sight of one for years, then......

From left to right. 1935/36 1st pattern, thin wreath. 1937/38 1st pattern, thin. 1939/> 2nd pattern (war time) heavy.

Comparison between 1st and much heavier 2nd pattern.

Typical 'Assmann' hand finishing to the reverse.

Having been on the hunt for this piece for some time, I was very pleased to see the postman making his way up the drive with clipboard and parcel in hand.. By F.W Assmann, IMO, one of the finest Observer?s badges made. This example, made of plated tombak, is unmarked, has the 1st pattern eagle on the 1937/38 wreath and is in very fine condition. The same 1st pattern eagle can also be found on the earlier 1935/36 wreath, used in the production of the 1st pattern Pilot & combined Pilot/Observer badge series.

Reverse...

Just in... WW1 EK2, Honour (Hindenburg) Cross, Silesian Eagle (2nd class), 18 Year Long Service Cross, 4 Year Long Service medal. The medal bar comes with its matching 9mm ribbon bar.