Kev in Deva

Gentlemen, the last time I checked this was still the Gentlemens Military Interest Club Forum and if any member wants to add his or her tuppence worth they are free to do so, without having to put up with any snide and sarcastic remarks. While members who can bring information to the Forum are very welcome, I am sure they can manage to do it without developing a "holier than thou" attitude. We are living all over the Globe and we do not all have access to the same books and catalogs, thats why we exsist as a forum to share information and even make speculations. And yes we will often ask stupid questions and make incorrect comments thats human nature. Going back to the start of this thread "Tom Y" asked what the item was for, and we are now aware that the item was utilised on different apparel and even head gear of the HJ. Any more pictures of the actual item in wear would be appriceated.I would also caution against trying to judge size in pictures buy rule of thumb of finger, not a very precise and acurate way of taking measurements. Again any member with these items in there collection might measure them and post the details, of course it must be taken into account any shrinkage from wash and wear on a used item. Kevin in Deva.

Christian many thanks for your info, If its still available when I attend Brasov Collectoes Fair, I will get a price from the seller, if you are interested. Kevin in Deva.

Recently this picture was offered for sale on Ebay, surprisingly the HJ badge has been applied to the swimming cap. Kevin in Deva

Hallo Gents, So its not possible to find a H.J. badge or any other badge / insignia mis-applied to an item of clothing?? And everything published back in 1933 is correct?? Funny, there are even mistakes made in following official regulations, as period pictures have shown. In my honest opinion there is nothing wrong with encouraging healthy honest debate amongst forum members. Kevin in Deva

Hallo Ceallach, With regards the War if Independance era, I think if we ask one of the Moderators to put the following threads, which are located in: Militaria by Region: European Militaria & History (Non Communist States) > Northern European & Baltic States: Non Communist Era into one topic: 1. ANYBODY NOTICE WHAT IRISH MEDALS RELATING TO THE WAR IF INDEPENDANCE 1916 - 1920, it would help ease reading about the items: 2. Irish War of Independance Medal with 'Comrac' Bar, Grouping with a couple of extra pieces. 3. 1916 easter uprising medal recipients, irish medals. 4. IRISH 1916 IRA SET On EBAY, Starting Bid: 1,500 Quid, or ?2,209.77c 5. Irish Medals at Auction And I think the following threads related to modern Irish Medals could be grouped under: 1. DEFENCE FORCE OF IRELAND SERVICE MEDALS. 2. My Presentation Gift on my retirement from the Irish Defence Forces., 3. Rare Irish Merchant Marine medal 1939 - 45, Only 32 medals issued with three bars. 4. Republic of Ireland Military Good Conduct Medal., Rare Item recently sold on Ebay. Please feel free to add any thoughts. Kevin in Deva.

Hallo Mark, thank you very much for posting your pictures, the silver version at the start of the thread I photographed in Brasov, Romania in early June, at a Collectors Fair, a seems as they cannot shift the "Junk" in the Western Europe area they are now sending pieces in to the old Eastern Communist Areas. In the last 3 years I have been surprised at the amount of Repro / Fake / Fantasy items that are turning up here in Romania, a few dealers from Bucharest seem to be actively trying to push some of this stuff and of course they claim its original and real!!! So far I have persuaded a few people I know not to part with their money on this crap, the most comic piece I saw was a brass set of folding opera style glasses with the Luftwaffe eagle and numerouse swastika transfers on every surface, the seller would not allow me to take any pictures of the item!!! (The glasses were a genuine period piece from Germany and all the Insignia added on. The transfers reminded me of the ones used in model aeroplabe kits Kevin in Deva.

Hi Jacky I have sent the seller a message asking about the engraving / naming of the medals. waiting for a reply. Kevin in Deva

Hallo Gents, The start price must have been ridiculosly LOW, any opinions, welcome please. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/The-Orders-Medals-of...1QQcmdZViewItem Sir John Leche 1889-1960 You are looking at probably the most important Group of Orders and Decorations on Ebay at the present time! We are reluctantly putting this fabulous group on the market, as we have recently greatly enhanced our collection of our specialist field of interest, and need to recoup a major ammount to continue with this investment. ''From Who Was Who 1951-1960'' Sir John Leche was born on 21st November 1889 at Carden Park, Chester. He was educated at Eton and The Royal Military College Sandhurst. He entered the 12th Lancers in 1910; retired and entered Special Reserve of the same regiment, 1913; served European War, in France, August 1914-June 1919, General Staff Officer 3 (Intelligence) (O.B.E. military, Crown of Belgium, 1914 Star and Bar, BWM & Victory and Allied Medals, mentioned in dispatches twice, 1935 Jubilee and 1937 Coronation); entered Diplomatic Service, 1919, and has served in Paris, Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires, Foreign Office, Berne, Madrid, Guatemala; Charge d'Affaires as Minister Plenipotentiary, to Spanish Republican Govt., Valencia and Barcelona, 1937-1938; Minister and Consul-General to Central America, 1939-1945; Ambassador to Chile 1945-1949; retired, 1950. Formerly Captain Regular Army Reserve of Officers. Address: Stretton Hall, Malpas Cheshire. Club: White's. Died 12 May 1960. 'Times' Obituary 1960 Sir John Leche, K.C.M.G. O.B.E., formally British Ambassador to Chile, died at his home, Stretton Hall, Malpas, Cheshire, yesterday. He was 70. John Hurleston Leche was born on November 21, 1889, the eldest surviving son of Mr, John Hurleston Leche, of Carden Park, Chester, and Kathleen, daughter of C. D. Hudson, M.P. He was educated at Eton and Sandhurst and then joined the 12th Lancers, with whom he served in France from 1914 to 1919, receiving the military O.B.E., the Order of the Crown of Belgium and two mentions in dispatches for his services. After the war he entered the Diplomatic Service and after serving in Spain, Brazil, Argentina and elsewhere was promoted in 1937 to the difficult post of Charge d'Affaires to the Spanish Republican Goverment at Valencia and later Barcelona. From 1939 to 1945 he was the very popular Minister to the Central American Republics with the exception of Costa Rica and Panama, with head-quarters in Guatemala. Here in his last year he gave sanctuary for some days in his Legation to the deposed president of Guatemala, General Ubico, and his wife until they could be smuggled out of the country to New Orleans, and by this humanitarian act no doubt saved the fallen dictator's life. For the ensuing four years he was Ambassador to Chile. Leche was a man of fine and upstanding presence, an excellent Spanish and French scholar, a discerning gourmet and himself a very good cook. His hospitality was proverbial. He was made C.M.G. in 1937 and K.C.M.G. 1n 1949. He married first in 1916 Amy Violet. daughter of Colonel C. W. Unthank, of Intwood Hall, Norwich, by whom he had one daughter. After her death he married, secondly, Helen Morris, daughter of F. A. Janney, of Philadelphia, by whom he had two sons and two daughters. She died in 1952, and the following year he married Mrs. Helen Margaret Kerrison, daughter of Lieutenant-Colonel R. C. Donaldson-Hudson, D.S.O. She died in 1957. This is a fantastic group and comes with minatures as well as the neck ribbon for the K.C.M.G. Sir John Leche would have known many famous (and infamous) historical figures, such as Franco and Von-Ribbontrop, its even likely that he might of met Hitler and Mussolini. He would have certainly known all the leaders of the wartime South American countries like Peron. This will appeal to many collecters, investors and institutions. There is still much research to be undertaken for the eventual owner of this wonderful group. E-mail for addition pics if required. Many thanks for your time in reading this. (S.F.A. July 3rd 2007). Kevin in Deva

Hallo Paul, Well its up to each person to believe or dis-believe what they will with regards stories about medals. Many a fine tale has been tacked onto objects of collectable value over the years, and yes there is a sucker born every minute. But one thing I forgot to mention is that medals of such a classification as mentioned here are held in Reserve as replacements should the receipiant damage or loose his issue piece, as all receipiants are entitled to one free replacement (after that they must pay for a replacement), this applies to all service medals on issue, and I very much doubt that all unissued would be rounded up and destroyed, (by destruction I also presume they are returned to the manufacturer to be smelted down. Pictures of boxes of medals being wrapped in explosive and blasted into atoms in the Glen of Immal springing to mind ) If these items have been trickling out the back door of a military store and turning up for sale I believe the State would have the option to confiscate them if and when seen offered for sale as they remain State property (as do the ones on issue). Also the Gardai would be involved as theft is theft and again all items remain accountable and certifiable. I well remember the investigation into a certain C.Q.M.S. when it was found he was "UP" 7.62mm magazines for the F.N. Rifle thats as bad as being "Down" items, that you carry on your Ledgers. Anyway, I still have some contacts in the Army and will make some inquiries. Kevin in Deva

Hallo Paul, by stores do you mean the factory stores? as I have said in my post "attractive items" such as these Medals would have been in an accountable system, as on ledger, (and it has yet to be established if ever there was a written order given for there destruction,) there was more than likely an order issued out in writing to all Barrack-Quartermaster-Sergeants of the various Commands to return them too what ever Stores was designated as Headquarters Stores for the return of the medals, thus them being struck of the Units / Bn / Regiments / Commands Ledgers. These items were not your ordinery "run of the mill service medals" so no doubt somebody would have to have been accountable for there whereabouts, and if and when an Officer regardless of whar rank, has signed a certificate that they have been destroyed and then have the items turn up in public questions would be asked and answers expected. For and Officer to sign his name to a Certificate indicating that items X,Y,Z had been destroyed before his eyes and then have them resurface would be a Court of Inquiry matter. I had some experiance in the Barrack Service Stores at Castlebar Military Barracks, which came under the Barrack Service Stores of Custume Barracks in Athlone, H.Q for the Western Command area, and every item shown on the ledger's had to be accounted for and the correct paperworrk shown, there was always a paper trail regardless of what the items were, and even more so for items like medals, etc...etc.. Kevin in Deva.

Hallo Alex if you look at the flag, its blue colour mirrors the blue enamelof the bar the medal hangs from, with regards the exsistence dates of the group itself I have to be honest and say I have no idea, hopefully Uwe can fill us in on it. Kevin in Deva.

Hallo Alex, This flag represents the FDJ association and is currently up for grabs on Ebay USA: http://cgi.ebay.com/East-German-FDJ-Flag-B...1QQcmdZViewItem Kevin in Deva

Hi Mark I must say I never heard of current Irish medals being taken away for destruction, in over 21 years service in the Irish Defence Forces!! Even more so as the issue was only suspended in 1990 and the questions over the qualification for the issue of the medal never being fully resolved (the particular un-named example at the start of this thread was claimed by the seller in his description to have been issued to serving NCO!!! The then common procedure of any millitary item was that it had to be signed for by some BQ or CQMS along the line, if being returned, then, the particular Barrack-Quarter-Master (B.Q.M.S) or Company-Quarter-Master-Sergeant (CQMS) that had them on stock must show them as being struck off strength and have a receipt for them. They would at all times remain the property of the Department of Defence. Normally blank medals were sent to the Engineer Company of the particular Commands, and there would have been engraved per details issued via Battalion strength returns in that Command for Service Medals etc..etc... my own medal details were applied by 4th Fld Eng Coy, in Custume Barracks Athlone, then forwarded onto my Battalion (the 28th Infantry Battalion) Finner Camp for issue. As the 1916 era medals are currently being faked, then I suspect the same might be happening with these Good Conduct Medals, certainly they do not warrent the high prices they are getting even if they can be verified as genuine issued articles / items. I notice yours is in the same style box as the previous medals mentioned on this thread. Kevin in Deva.

Hallo Mark, is your one with number and name to the rear?? From my understanding of the regulations NONE were issued without having the receipiants details to the rear. Kevin in Deva

Hallo Ricky The same item as yours is on page 56 of Mr. Iliese Marchel newly published book "INSIGNELE Aviatiei Militare Romane. ROMANIAN AIR FORCE BADGES. AIR FORCE TECHNICIANS FROM 1947 to 1965 They were issued in Gold and Silver. Differences in colour have no significance but aesthetic one. Textile badges appeared in the 1950s.They were similar to those of pilots except the fact they had two hammers crossed under a star on which one could read the proficency level (3, 2, 1, or no leval at all.) Kevin in Deva.

Hallo Gents, any opinions on this piece? http://cgi.ebay.com/MONGOLIAN-HONORARY-MED...1QQcmdZViewItem The seller is offering 50 Mongolian pieces direct from Mongolia if anybody is interested. Kevin in Deva

Hallo Benas, For the moment I would have to think that this is some kind of unofficial cross, possibly, what falls into the catagory of "Patriotika", the Austrians as well as the Prussians had many unofficial awards that were sold to the public and soldiers to raise monies for the war effort or charities connected with helping the relief of wounded soldiers and their families. It also looks like there is no maker mark and just carrying the date 1014 might indicate a very early piece of "Patriotika" I am sure if any of the members do know exactly what its for they will soon tell us. Kevin in Deva.

Hallo Benas, Thanks for the praise, but, there are others on the Forum more knowledgeable than me I am sure Most of what I know I picked up from looking online, even from "collecting" pictures from ebay auctions to use as a simple reference file, I know some people frown upon that, but, in the absence of any good books at reasonable prices then knowledge has to be gleaned from all sources. I will see if I can get any info on reference books connected with Austrian Orders, I feel some of our German or Austrian members would be more up to speed with whats out there. Kevin in Deva.

A D.D.R. Freindship Medal from the F.D.J. litteral translation "Free German Young Folk" Patriotic award. Kevin in Deva

I am not sure if these are military items as such, they have the look of modern Military Veterans Association awards for service to, or in, the Association, depending on what exactly they were awarded for the value could be the intial cost price to fabricate them + or - 40 Euros Kevin in Deva

Hallo Gents I would be inclined to leave it be, if a jeweller heats the swords it might cause damage to the original enamel work. Some of the Romanian enamel work is so fine even a change in tempeture has been known to crack it: (i.e, taking a piece from a controlled temprature of a house / appartment outside into the winter climate on the way to a collectors meeting!! Kevin in Deva

Gentlemen, thanks for all your comments, I decided not to bid as the seller was insisting on 24 US dollars postage to Romania, which is way to high when the USPS web-page postal calculator gives a 1 Pound packet by Registered Post at just over 10 US Dollars. Looks like some seller's want to claw back some cash if the item sells at a very low price, in this case $9.99. Kevin in Deva.

Hallo Hardy, many thanks for the info, good job I didnt make a on the spot buy Kevin in Deva.

Close-up. Kevin in Deva

Hallo Gents spotted this at the recent collectors fair in Deva, but was unable to identify the badge. Any ideas?? Kevin in Deva