Great information Thank you very much Gordon :food-smiley-004: , I was not aware that military personel got the one without swords. Any idea what he did to recive it? You have a freind who was in the "LAH", Cool , I was in the food court at a mall in Red Deer, and there was an older grey haired gentleman a few table's away who was wearing a leather hat, and it had the Div sign for the 'Frunsberg", I so wanted to go ask him if that was it, but I had a concern that he might not take it the right way! I would be interested to talk to a vet from there, though they miight not want to talk about their experiences. Here's another one of mine, It's purported to be an unmarked S&L