Ebay Bavarian 4 position medal bar "f?r Rettung"

[KeithB]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...A%3AIT&rd=1

I came across this medal bar and I would like to figure out what is going on here. I am mostly attracted to the bar because of the lifesaving medal, but generally I'm out of my league. I can tell that the King Ludwig Cross is in the wrong place but that is about it. What belongs in the first two spots? Is the lifesaving medal on the correct ribbon?

I'm sorry but there aren't good photos of the back. The seller hasn't included any and I'm wondering if the hook for the Ludwig Cross is broken off and that's why it's misplaced...

But if anybody is up to some general discussion of this bar I would appreciate it.

[KeithB]

the rest of the available photos

Edited September 22, 2006 by KeithB

[Wild Card]

Hi KeithB,

Nice bar! To get the ball rolling on this one, my guess is as follows. Actually, as I see it, nothing is on the right ribbon; but this is not a probelm. First, move the Ludwig cross to position four and then move the Luitpold cross to position three. The lifesaving medal would then go to position one or two, depending on what is missing.

With regard to that situation, there are several options, such as the civil merit medal and the medal to the Merit Order of the Bavarian Crown. I am sure that others, more qualified, will finally fill in the gap(s) for you.

Good luck and best wishes,

Wild Card

[KeithB]

The bidding on this bar went a little bit crazy after I posted this question here.

In case anybody is interested in it, I emailed the seller asking if it had all four hooks and this was the response:

Hallo,

es sind nur 3 Haken!

mfg

Sigrid

a fact the seller conveniently leaves out of the posting.

And thank you, wildcard, for the response. It was very much appreciated.

I have a bar with a Luitpold medal on it so I should have recognised the ribbon. I do not know, however, what the criteria were for being awarded one or the other. If could talk a little offhand about the medal and the cross and what the criteria for their being awarded I would appreciate it.

Edited September 24, 2006 by KeithB

[Guest Rick Research]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh what a lovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvely bar! I've been waiting my whole collecting life for a Bavarian Lifesaving Medal to come home with me and have never found one, let alone been able to afford one. I've never even found a ribbon bar with one on it!

You can JUST see the tips of the hooks on the tightly cropped reverse shots.

I'd say the Lifesaving preceded a Civil Merit Medal (Bob, you still have THAT wonder bar???) and the FOURTH hook HAS broken off. The Lifesaving and Civil Merit ribbons are identical. Be tough to find a Civil Merit since I have only ever held one of THOSE in my paws before it went West.

The Ludwig Cross is the 1916-ish smoked bronze type, for general home front war effort.

The Luitpold Cross for 40 Years Service in State and Community Service was created on the Prince-Regent's 90th birthday in 1911 and bestowed from then until 1918. It was also given retroactively to previous retirees with 40 years service in

court, state, church, and community service IF they did not have a Ludwig decoration for 50+ years (already) or holders of the military long service decoration 1st Class.

I have a lapel mini of that cross, but this is the first one I can recall seeing in almost forever on a bar.

Wish I had an idea of how many Life Saving Medals were bestowed (this design remained in use into 1931 !!!) but don't. It shows up fairly frequently among officers in the Bavarian Rank Lists, but just have never snagged one.

The wearer was an OLD civilian and he just wore these the way HE wanted to!

Just think what this SHOULD be "worth" if the AWARD DOCUMENTS were still with these medals!!!!!!!!!

[Paul R]

Thanks for sharing this bar!! This is the first Bavarian Lifesaving medal I have seen!!!

[HeikoGrusdat]

Rick is this the group you are talking about.... got it from Bob earlier this year, beautiful medal!!!

Heiko

[Guest Rick Research]

Yesssssssssssssss

All of that once sat on my kitchen table (muffled sobs).

[Stogieman]

Heiko! Outside of a couple of Bravery Medal groups, that Bavarian Polizei Group is one of the BEST I have ever handled, including Officer groups. Splendid and then some. I'm the one that layed it on Rick R's table!! ;>)

[Wild Card]

Hi KeithB,

Following up on your question as to ?What belongs in the first two spots (?)? here is an old beaten up bar that may offer another possibility.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[HeikoGrusdat]

yes it is a very interesting and rare group, I was very happy when I got it from Bob.... by the way, your table must have seen a lot of history yet

[Gerd Becker]

Hi KeithB,

Following up on your question as to “What belongs in the first two spots (?)” here is an old beaten up bar that may offer another possibility.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

Wow

WC, you are allways able to throw in an absolute stunner in almost every thread

Beautiful piece with the Jubilee Cross for Members of Both Chambers! The Medal in fourth place is the silver or the golden Medal of the Order of the Bavarian Crown? "Losch" or "Losch F." type, if silver?

Thanks for sharing your great Medalbars with us

Heiko, thats a beautiful set

Edited September 26, 2006 by Gerd Becker

[Wild Card]

Hi Gerd,

I apologize for having taken a bit of time in answering your questions. Unfortunately, the the medal of the Order of the Bavarian Crown is silver. There are traces of the engraver?s mark; but not enough for me to determine which one, with or without the ?F?.

As you know these particular marks tend to be quite faint. Below are pictures of the medal, a close-up of it?s mark and a close-up of the mark of another similar medal.

Thank you for the compliments and best wishes,

Wild Card

[Wild Card]

Marks