My New WW2 Commonwealth Stars

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Peter

Have you never heard of the famous RAF Indian crewed, 666 Squadron, the Vindaloo Busters.

Kevin in Deva. only joking guys

Edited October 11, 2006 by Kev in Deva

[Ed_Haynes]

Ignoring Kev's comments, . . . .

Both Atlantic Star and ACE Star were awarded to Indian naval and air force personnel (respectvely) who qualified. Pictures of the ribbons (and medals) being worn are available. Not many in either case, to be sure.

As of January 1946 numbers on ESTIMATED WWII medals for IA and RIN (no RIAF or merchant navy), to be struck at the Calcutta Mint (for issue to Indians or Brits remaining in India after Independence = not many), are shown below. As RIAF and merchant navy are excluded the est. 30-40 ACE Stars and maybe 500 extra Atlantic Stars are not shown.

War Medal 2,541,000

1939-45 1,520,000

Burma 1,210,000

Africa 202,000

Defence 201,500

Italy 150,300

Pacific 31,500

F&G 3,100

Atlantic 2,000

ACE 0 (but no RIAF included)

ISM unrecorded (it was too new anyway)

If you wish photos of the At and ACE being worn and it isn't too far I can provide.

[peter monahan]

Ed

Call me dim!

I still don't see (ignoring Kevin ) where "est. 30-40 ACE Stars" come from.

I hasten to add that I believe implicitly that they do exist, even if the Calcutta Mint didn't feel the need to strike any. If you say so, I accept it - and I mean that seriously.

But were they RAF members domiciled in India? I'm ashamed to say I don't recall, if I ever knew, whether or not there were Indian Air Force units prior to 1947.

Colour me puzzled!

Peter

[Ed_Haynes]

ACE Stars for IAF personnel who were in the UK (at first, for training) and who flew over Europe operationally.

See: http://sagongs.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=649 (as citing other fora isn't naughty here, is it? p- you will need to be signed up there, sorry)

See, for example, Air Vice Marshal Erlic Pinto, photo taken probably between 1960-63.

[Ed_Haynes]

Or Squadron Leader Mohinder Singh Pujji DFC:

[Ed_Haynes]

And others . . . .

Unknown, at present, whether their ACEs are named or not. (They are being asked, those who survive or whose families can be contacted! Same for Atlantic Stars, though my naval contacts are fewer.) As late as two years ago, the medal office in the MoD in New Delhi till stocked ACE Stars.

Alas, while Indian pilots were training and serving in the UK during the Battle of Britian, they were never operational. Drat!

Edited October 10, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

Actually, may I correct, <24 ACE Stars?

See: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/...s/OE-RAF24.html

[Ed_Haynes]

Sorry, gotta add one more, AVM Ranjan Dutt, VrC. Would trade BOTH my daughters for HIS group!

[Ed_Haynes]

But, sorry, this is getting us way for this thread and this forum!

Edited October 10, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[peter monahan]

Ed

Colour me impressed!

Interesting notes on the 24 and their various fates, especially "Failed to return from Rhubarb" ! (I knoe, RAF slang, but a bit odd in the context.

Once again, your encyclopedic knowledge wows me.

Peter

[Ed_Haynes]

Once again, your encyclopedic knowledge wows me.

Not mine, mate, wish it were , but largely that of http://sagongs.ipbhost.com/ -- credit where credit is due, you know.

[Ed_Haynes]

Oops, correction,. another Dogra group: 4648 Company Havildar Major Dina Nath, 2/17th Dogra Regiment

See: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2400&st=66

[Avitas]

Here are my other WW2 Stars (posted previously as part of an 8th army grouping) for viewing. They are all unnamed Canadian issues with original period ribbons.

Cheers,

Pat

[Avitas]

Reverses...

Cheers,

Pat

[Avitas]

Hello again,

Finally got around to scanning my "refinished" example of the WW2 Italy Star. It seems many Canadian soldiers had their medals shined up for parade purposes post-war, as compared to keeping their "dull" copper coloured finish. These are all original stars for the most part as far as I know, but as you can definitely see the refinishing job on this example. Even the second finish is a little worn on this Italy Star. The ribbon as well is a replacement to get that shiny white and crisp look for the various ceremonies etc after the war that the veterans attend. I wonder if this is common elsewhere or if it is mainly a Canadian phenomenon.

Cheers,

Pat

[Avitas]

..and a pic of the reverse of the silvered star. Any more info on this Italy Star or comments on any of the other ww2 Stars is very welcome,

Cheers

[peter monahan]

..and a pic of the reverse of the silvered star. Any more info on this Italy Star or comments on any of the other ww2 Stars is very welcome,

Cheers

You mean this baby's actually been silver plated on the fron, as opposed to just polished within an inch of it's everlovin' life? Ouch!

( I think we tend to assume that vets knew and cared about dress regs and so on, when in fact there are some awful crimes against good taste and the King's/Queen's Regs perpetrated by the legitinate owners of uniforms and medals who've decided to "improve" on what they were issued/awarded.)

Peter

[Ed_Haynes]

Such abominations are common. When the medal is not sparkly enough, it gets "improved". Sometimes by individual personal aesthetics, sometimes the colonel just likes shiny things (colonels being easily amused by shiny moving objects).

In WWI, it was fairly common for Indian soldiers to have their stars and victory medals silver plated or dipped or just painted, as bronze medals were seen as awards for "followers" only.

[Guest Darrell]

Yep .. a travesty. One's about to happen to my Uncle's medals in fact. For some godawful unknown reasoning, my family (of which I can't pry these out of their hands ) are obsessed about getting them plated !!!

I have no idea what they even plan on doing with them afterward. Probably give them to my brother's son who has about as much interest in history as his other buddies on the playground.

I can see them being played with and worn in "war-games" only to be damaged and discarded to the bottom of a toybox when he gets bored playing with them

[Michael Johnson]

In WWI, it was fairly common for Indian soldiers to have their stars and victory medals silver plated or dipped or just painted, as bronze medals were seen as awards for "followers" only.

And unfortunately, I've found IGS 1895s "upgraded" the same way.

[Ed_Haynes]

And unfortunately, I've found IGS 1895s "upgraded" the same way.

And IGS 54s too. May post some (but in another thread).

[Guest andrew67]

Earlier this year ( after 61 years !!!!!! ) , my grandfather applied for and received his Australian WW2 medals.

Of the 4 he received , one was an African Star of which I beleive only about 40,000 went to Australians. All are named.

Although I do collect medals ( mainly Soviet ) , this group will get pride of place in my house and will never be sold

Interestingly , he didnt get the 39-45 star which I have queried.

Edited December 1, 2006 by andrew67

[peter monahan]

Earlier this year ( after 61 years !!!!!! ) , my grandfather applied for and received his Australian WW2 medals.

Of the 4 he received , one was an African Star of which I beleive only about 40,000 went to Australians. All are named.

Although I do collect medals ( mainly Soviet ) , this group will get pride of place in my house and will never be sold

Interestingly , he didnt get the 39-45 star which I have queried.

That is interesting! I didn't think it was possible to qualify for a campign star without simultaneously qualifying for the '39-'45, but I admit I've never studied it closely. Do let us know what the gubmint blokes say.

Peter

[Ed_Haynes]

No, I have several proper groups this way. As a general pattern, it seems to reflect those who entered into shooting areas really late in their military careers or the war and were allowed to qualify for an area star without the usual first qualification for the 39-43 (or 39-45) star.

For example, the group to 388463 Major (QGO) Rukman Limbu, MBE, 1/7th Gurkha Rifles, that dwells with me, has but a single Burma Star and is very much on its original mounting (and period photos show him wearing this group). See: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2331&st=33

[Guest andrew67]

No, I have several proper groups this way. As a general pattern, it seems to reflect those who entered into shooting areas really late in their military careers or the war and were allowed to qualify for an area star without the usual first qualification for the 39-43 (or 39-45) star.

I have queried it with the ADF ( Australian Defence Force ) but havent received an answer yet.

He served in the Syrian Campaign , see link below

http://www.awm.gov.au/units/event_295.asp

This is the 1939-45 Star requirement

http://www.anzacday.org.au/education/medals/general/ww2.html

This is his basic WW2 page

http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/script/veteran.a...eteranID=460613

I have ordered a copy of his service record today , but a relative has a record and I am sure when I saw it ( admittedly a while ago ) that he should easily qualify for it.

Any thoughts ?