work for you, gentleman ;)

[derGeneral]

A few minutes ago I bought this nice medalbar on ebay. As you can see the third ribbon might be for a WWI war affort cross, but I'm not sure, as a Crown Order with Red Cross in combination with Red Eagle order or non combat 1870 IC might work. Gentlemen, what's your opinion?

[Ulsterman]

Officer Long Service medal-25 years-Landwehr if military, non-medical (unlikely) or as below, REO, Eagle medal for teachers, a state award as a Doctor (or even a noncom EK2 (1870) or even 1914 version-most of the latter went to civvys anyway-Burermeisters, bureaucrats, private MDs working at war hospitals, and even some Chaplains, etc.

OR LS medal (NCO) or AEZ .

I can not find my notes, but if memory serves a noncom 1871 medal on a noncom ribbon indicates noncom service in a noncom unit/occupation. This man could well have been a stretcher bearer at the front. Note the lack of bars though. He could also have been a medical officer/nurse sitting in Berlin treating wounded soldiers from Sedan. Many of these noncom medals went to medicals, but some went to Chaplain types too. I think I have seen one to a bandsman somewhere.

What ever he was, we know he was born at least in 1853 and was still kicking about in 1916-18 to get a war aid cross at age 63-or above.

Edited October 23, 2006 by Ulsterman

[Guest Darrell]

As I'm sure you know ... looks like someone ripped off the "fourth" medal ribbon and all

[saschaw]

Looks to me like a Frackspange, and also methinks it is from about 1900 and not WWI era (just a feeling), so it cannot be the crappy zinky Kriegshilfekreuz but something much better.

For the last (or, if I'm right and it IS actually a Frackspange, then first) position might match different Red Eagle Orders, or also an Iron Cross 1870, rather on the white and black than on the black and white ribbon.

Please, as soon as it arrives, show us a picture of the back ...

[Dave Danner]

Based on the precedence, it has to be a Frackspange. A KDM outranks a Centenary, and anything on the Kriegshilfe ribbon outranks a KDM.

Speculation is nice, but the likeliest scenario is still a Red Eagle 4th, Prussian Kriegshilfe, KDM and Centenary, reflecting an 1870-71 noncombatant, later decorated for long service to the state/society, who helped out the war effort in the later years of his life as well.

[derGeneral]

Today the medal bar arrived, here are new pics. I would be happy if some more meanings come

[derGeneral]

and the backside...

[derGeneral]

Could no one help anymore ?

[saschaw]

Hmm, so noone but only me thinks this is an older bar, from about 1900 or 1910? Well, it's always a question of feeling, maybe I felt wrong.

As I have the same problem with a bar of mine, might you please give me as well some ideas? The first one is riped off completely , from the second one the ribbon still remains, so we can see clearly it has to be a "Erinnerungskreuz f?r freiwillige Krankenpflege 1870/71" from Baden (the ribbon's red looks much different to the similar ones from WWI). But the first one?! Something that outranks a home country, war award ...

Any ideas, please?!

Edited November 23, 2006 by saschaw

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello Saschaw:

Have you considered that a Prussian Crown Order 4th Class with "Genfer Kreuz" seems like a natural fit for your first group at the second position. Unfortunately, we will never know what could have been at the first position. I definately think that this is an older group (1900-1910) and not WWI-era.

Best regards,

"SPM"

[derGeneral]

Hello SPM,

the first medalbar is mine.... A collector friend build this picture with Paint Shop Pro... The bar would look like the one on the picture, ins some weeks...

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello derGeneral:

I think that this combination makes perfect sense. Your friend did a great job with the photoshop image. Good luck finding the orders to complete the job!

Best regards,

"SPM"

[derGeneral]

He also gives me a second possibility, but it's nearly impossible to found a original IC 1870 2cn class with non combat ribbon, so i gonna take the first possibility, with REO 4th class The crown order with red cross is here, only the REO is still missing

[Schießplatzmeister]

Dear derGeneral:

If you have the Crown Order 4th Class w/ Geneva Cross, then you have the toughest piece to find already.

You are right, an Original 1870 EKII with original white ribbon with black stripes would be tough to find.

The RAO 4th Class will not be difficult to find. The question is how much will it cost? These relatively common crosses seem to have been going up in price very fast lately!

Best regards,

"SPM"

[saschaw]

Your friend did a great job with the photoshop image.

Indeed nice done, but actually, he didn't:

as it is a frack bar, the ribbon on the right has to be the "first" one, overlapping the one left of it. Don't forget this while fixing it ...

PS:

Any thoughts about my bar, please?

Edited November 24, 2006 by saschaw

[JimZ]

Restoring a medal bar to its former glory is a nice project. Adding on a missing medal to its ribbon is one thing. But I am not convinced the fourth medal should be added.... Just being a bit of a puritan here.... I got something about trying to keep these items as orignal as possible.....

Jim

[Schießplatzmeister]

[attachmentid=61907]

Hello everyone:

Here is an item from my collection that I believe supports derGeneral's restoration of the bar (with the RAO). I too do not like the idea of just adding any order or medal to a bar, but this combination of awards was probable for this bar originally, so it is not too much of a stretch.

Sorry about the black and white scan! My scanner is giving me grief these days. By the way, the 1870 medal in the miniature group is the non-combat (steel/silver coloured) version.

Best regards,

"SPM"

[derGeneral]

@ SPM

A really fantastic miniature chain In the attachment you could see the crown order with red cross for the medal bar...

Edited November 24, 2006 by derGeneral