Generalleutnant Wilhelm Weidinger's Awards

[Guest Rick Research]

These just scooted through my house today long enough for a quick scan before the Evil Ricky sent it on to its ultimate destination, oh boo hoo hoo why not me, Lord, why why why not meeee.

[attachmentid=4835]

My scan ability was limited somewhat by the fact that both the medal bar and matching ribbon bar are curved to fit the recipient's chest.

This is a perfect example of researchable awards, since this was Completely Anonymous.

Clues:

The WW1 trio of EK2, WF3bX, and HH. None of those seem unduly distinctive, but sometimes "common" awards are quite UNcommon in combination.

There were TWO officers in the Reichsheer with this combination. Both also held an EK1 and 1918 Black Wound Badge. No officer in the Reichsmarine had this trio and "25" seniority.

The W?rttemberg Friedrich Order-Knight 2ndX (WF3bX) AND "25/12" indicate someone of Lieutenant rank during the war, and continuous long service into the Third Reich. A holder of an old Imperial era XXV who simply replaced that with the new model long services on being recalled would NOT have been that junior during WW1. No up from the ranks overaged/junior ranked technical officer had this combination.

[Guest Rick Research]

Now... TWO. How do we distinguish which was which?

In this case, luckily enough, the OTHER same WW1 awards recipient was a combat engineers battalion commander in the invasion of Poland 1939-- HE would have had an EK2 Spange and NOT the flawless early materials KVK2X here of circa 1940 (when the same classes of EK and KVK could not be worn together).

This leaves

Wilhelm Weidinger

born 12 September 1889 Schmalkalden

Army 7 September 1909 to 31 December 1944

Cadet in Foot Artillery Regiment 13, but commissioned in the newly raised Foot Artillery Regiment 16, then posted to the Military Technical Academy 1913/14

Leutnant 27.1.11 vorpatentiert to 29.1.09 Nn

Oberleutnant 22.3.15 D50d

Hauptmann 22.3.18 D5d/#21

Major circa 1930

Oberstleutnant 1.7.34 #

Oberst 1.10.36 #6

Generalmajor 1.10.40 #

Generalleutnant 1 October 1942 #6

Commander 9th Battery, IIIrd Battalion, Artillery Regiment 3 in 1924

On staff of Artillery Regiment 5 1928

***Section Chief (Abteilungs-Chef) of OKH/HWA "Wa Pr?f 8"-- Abteilung for Optik, Messwesen und Heereswetterdienst from 1 October 1937***

Arko 18 15.7.40

Inspector of Army Flak on staff of the OKH 1,2,41

General of Flak Troops of the army and Inspector of Army Flak 15.1.-1.8.44

*** This Army High Command staff position explains his early KVK2X.

[Glenn J]

Excellent work Rick

His Major's RDA is 1.3.31 (4)

In 1920-1923 he was in Artillerie-Regiment 3

In 1932 he was on the staff of the Heeres-Waffenamt (WaA) in the ballistics and munitions department - Ballistische- und Munitionsabteilung (Wa Prw 1).

He commanded Beobachtungs-Abteilung 4 at Landsberg (Lech) from 1 May 1933 - 30 Sep 1934 and Artillerie-Regiment 5 at Ulm from 6 Oct 1936 - 1 Feb 1937.

Born on 12 Sep 1889, died 14 May 1967.

Regards

Glenn

[Bob Hunter]

Awesome work gentlemen. Good job!

[Sal Williams]

Hot Diggety! How do you do that???? Why werent you allowed to have the same class KVK and EK and when did that end? And how did you find that out in the first place???

Best, Sal

I want to win the gold ticket to Ricky Ronkas Research Factory!!!

[Guest Rick Research]

Regulations concerning wear of EK and KVK same grade did not allow that until October 1941.

Sometimes I think Glenn uses a Time Machine. But me?

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrank Lisssssssssssssts. Raaaaaaaaaaaaank Llllllllllists.

[attachmentid=4849]

you are getting sleepy, very sleeeeeeeeepy

[Stogieman]

Now the sad part.......... because with all great stories, there is always an "awe shucks"....

My source has the 2 10X bars offered as a set. Further down his offers email was the smaller bar, obviously an earlier, matching bar to the same general, but for sale by itself. Thankfully, I was fast enough to get these.........

Unfortunately, there was a 4X bar to the same guy with no LS, just his WW1 combat awards........ some poor schlub in Germany now owns an anonymous bar and has no clue, as did the seller, that this was a very, very special group.

I just love some of the conversations The Twins have......... picture this:

"I don't suppose this combination is identifiable, is it?"

"hmmmmmmmmmmmmm"

"Maybe"

Exactly 12 minutes later:

"Got 'im"

[Stogieman]

Oh yeah, as an aside... the W?rttemburg piece is rather unique. The swords and body of the cross are a one-piece item that neither of "The Twins" has seen before... AND the center chiffres are real gold...... someone had this puppy made to spec!

I will let "The Evil Twin" explain the significance now discovered with his fondling of this exceptional, matching ribbon bar! :excl:

[Stogieman]

And, just to help you research aspirants out....... the REAL clue here started with the Wehrmacht 25 Year LS Cross!

[Bob Hunter]

Oh yeah, as an aside... the W?rttemburg piece is rather unique. The swords and body of the cross are a one-piece item that neither of "The Twins" has seen before... AND the center chiffres are real gold...... someone had this puppy made to spec!

I will let "The Evil Twin" explain the significance now discovered with his fondling of this exceptional, matching ribbon bar!? :excl:

←

Himself was wondering if it might be a recycled 19 century piece...?

Edited June 23, 2005 by Bob Hunter

[Guest Rick Research]

You'll see when you get it, now that we've given you a couple of sleepless nights' anticipation. You should be able to wiggle it out for a full front shot over the KVK2X.

I had a cased late war Foehr made WF3bX some years ago on the usual swiveling swords, and it had very faint gold. This piece's gold on the center disks' rings and crowned cyphers is thick and heavy, which makes me wonder if it is a THIRD type, to add to the rare heavy square sword connections that were in use early in WW1.

This one restores a bit of my confidence, since I was 0 for 2 on previous recent attempts-- a FOUR (or is it FIVE?) Orders Bavarian and a NINE yes NINE Orders Prussian-- but then those were RIBBON bars. It makes allllllll the difference to have the MEDAL BAR awards. Then there is NO question about which of multiple awards go on the same ribbon.

Another very minor detail which might be worth checking against an actual Wehrmacht parade dress uniform--

see how the EK2 is JUST a little bit UP higher than the other awards? I suspect very strongly that this was not carelessness or sloppiness-- it's mounted in there for the ages. "Trying it on" on my own Noble Figure, it stretches exactly from the OUTSIDE edge of a shirt front to armpit:

I suspect that on an 8 button front parade tunic, a bar this long might have "clunked" on the third button down, rubbing and "clicking" with movement. The EK was therefore "scootched" up just that tiny amount so he bar would fit between the second and third buttons without rubbing.

[landsknechte]

Unfortunately, there was a 4X bar to the same guy with no LS, just his WW1 combat awards........ some poor schlub in Germany now owns an anonymous bar and has no clue, as did the seller, that this was a very, very special group.

Perchance did you hang on to the photo of this earlier bar? For some inexplicable reason I've got the urge to stare at the swords on the Friedrichsorden to see if Weidinger ever shopped for ribbon bars somewhere where they stocked interesting s-hilted devices...

[Stogieman]

No, but the swords were not the same as these.

[Guest Rick Research]

That trio is a great example of why RIBBON bars are harder to research than MEDAL bars--

because there is NO way to tell on a ribbon bar if it was a WF3aX or a WF3bX.

I could NOT have come up with Weidinger from his ribbon bars: there were quite a number of WF3aX holders with the HH-- typical STAFF type awards.

My Evil Twin will confirm that upon his telling me about the group, I must have interrogated him at least 273 times "WF3bX? NOT a WF3aX? You are SURE it is a WF3bX?" because what was "routine" for a staff Captain was most assuredly not routine for a Lieutenant in a field unit.

[Stogieman]

Yes, as Ziggy Marley said: "I axe many questiones"

[landsknechte]

Ah. Well at least we know that at least some of Weidinger's personal effects have survived to the present day, and entered onto the collector's market. As much of an insane long shot as it might be, I'm hoping that one of these days, a photo will surface. My bar had been narrowed down to seven possibles, only one of which I've been able to eliminate from the running.

Of course, now I've got the "it's a small world" jingle running through my head. Ugh.

--Chris

[landsknechte]

Another interesting tidbit that I managed to overlook until just now... A Prussian with a "South German" ribbon bar. Don't see that every day.

[Stogieman]

Interesting note Chris. But I have a surprising number of groups of ribbon bars right now.... all the same guy(s) and in both styles of bar!

Bob, as a footnote..... FedEx is working its' magic, as we speak!

[Bob Hunter]

Great! Something to look forward to along with increased activity in the Imperial Awards Forum.

[Bob Hunter]

...and the FEDEX magic is wrought. A closer look at the chiffres of the WF3bx indicate the finish is gilt. Heavy gilt but gilt not gold. The crown of the above the royal cypher on the obverse has had the finish worn from contact with the KVK2x. The picture also shows the direct attachment of the swords and the burnishing from contact with the reverse of the KVK2x.

Edited June 29, 2005 by Bob Hunter

[Bob Hunter]

Let's try this again...a close up showing the gilt wear.

Edited June 29, 2005 by Bob Hunter

[Bob Hunter]

I just learned there is a reference book on german generals 1921-1945. If anyone has a copy would you check it for a picture of Weidinger. If a picture exists please post it.

[Guest Rick Research]

2014.

That ought to be when the "W" volume comes out. The authors have DIED while Biblio prolongs the ETERNALLY dragged out publication "schedule."

I think they just entered "M."

That's why I stopped with the navy and air force volumes (3 each and a supplement on Obscure Beamten not originally covered in the navy ones)...

waiting 10 years for a book to come out, when all the work was DONE in the 1980s.....

[Bob Hunter]

So, simply stated, probablyl not in my lifetime. Then, too, consider it from the publisher's perspective as a resource allocation exercise. The publisher has x bucks to publish x++ books and will choose to put money on high return projects.

A highly specialized reference work such as this can't be expected to hit the New York Times Best Seller List. Too bad for us.