Turkey Turkish Star and EK2

[TerryG]

Just got this photo (not in the best of condition) which you may like:

[Guest Rick Research]

FANTASTIC photo!!! Have NEVER seen the cap isnignia and dagger in wear like this! A phenomenally well decorated Leutnant zur See/Ensign!

I wonder if this is an early Republic, 1920s period photo?

An absolutely terrific image!

[TerryG]

Well thank you. THere is a date on the back which reads 22/1?/12 (the numbers are Turkish and written in that order). I bought this because of the presence of the EK2 and Turkish Star really and even though the photo is in back condition, it is indeed very impressive.

[Mike Dwyer]

Nice photo.

I'm guessing by the insignia on the hat, and the style of the hat, that he's Ottoman Navy?

[Ed_Haynes]

I can't imagine a fez, or anything looking so much like a fez as that strange navy hat does, being worn under the republic.

Marvelous photo!!!

[Ulsterman]

Nice photo.

See him (I think) also on ebay being sold with a BB & Co. star by joanem2816 out of Blaine, Washingtoon. Hatless, that photo shows him in Wilhelmshafen around 1917.

http://coins-decorations.com/images/800-999/807/3.jpg

picture into the void:

Edited January 31, 2007 by Ulsterman

[Guest Rick Research]

I'd say that's 1922 from the altered calendar, transitional period before Arabic was replaced by the Roman alphabet.

Here's an old scan from Admiral B?ning's album, but showing the same Ottoman fez cap with insignia being worn circa 1916/17 by Kapt zS/Ottoman Konteradmiral Wilhelm T?gert (1871-1950)--

usually the German "Turks" wore plain fezzes. I'd forgotten there was one of this type in my archives.

[Riley1965]

I do like these photos Thanks for sharing them!!!

Doc

[Ulsterman]

note edit above

[Guest Rick Research]

Better save that other image before it goes off into the void!!!

Here's close up made fresh yesterday of T?gert-- obviously wearing a khaki top to match his uniform. But there doesn't seem to be any noticable difference in the fez braid between an Ensign and a Rear Admiral!!!

[Claudius]

And the recruitment of small, pointy-nosed soldiers is quite evident. Any chance of seeing the dachshunds awards and issue fez?

Great photos!

[Tosun Saral]

The unknown young Turkish naval officer is a gradutant of the year 1922. We learn this from the date 22/?/12. As all new officers he posed also with his dagger. He bears 1st and 2nd class IK and a Turkish War medal and Gallipoli star. He is young for such medals. Those medals must be from his late father. He wears those medals because his father is dead.

The second neval officer is another person. he is also unkown.

I give you under a photo of my late father who graduated from Turkish War School the Harbiye in 1924.

http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/tt/62cad/#TL

[TerryG]

The unknown young Turkish naval officer is a gradutant of the year 1922. We learn this from the date 22/?/12. As all new officers he posed also with his dagger. He bears 1st and 2nd class IK and a Turkish War medal and Gallipoli star. He is young for such medals. Those medals must be from his late father. He wears those medals because his father is dead.

The second neval officer is another person. he is also unkown.

I give you under a photo of my late father who graduated from Turkish War School the Harbiye in 1924.

http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/tt/62cad/#TL

Where do you see an Iron Cross 1st Class? Why do you think the Iron Cross is not his?

[Tosun Saral]

1-This photo was shot in 22/?/12

2-The young officer is a leutenant of navy

3- The gallipoli star began to be given in 1915-16. 7 years before the a/m date. This young officer ought to be at the age of 14 or 15.

Therefore the young officer ought to be the successor of the medal.

In the wake of the establishment of the republic in 1923 the decoration of all Ottoman medals was relinquished. After the republic only medal of Independance was permitted to carry by the officers.

[Tosun Saral]

A photo of an unknown Turkish infantry captain from the year 1922

the 3rd officer in the serie:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=105327

[TerryG]

1-This photo was shot in 22/?/12

2-The young officer is a leutenant of navy

3- The gallipoli star began to be given in 1915-16. 7 years before the a/m date. This young officer ought to be at the age of 14 or 15.

Therefore the young officer ought to be the successor of the medal.

In the wake of the establishment of the republic in 1923 the decoration of all Ottoman medals was relinquished. After the republic only medal of Independance was permitted to carry by the officers.

Interesting theory. Are we certain of the age of this man in 1922, assuming the photo was indeed taken in 1922? I guess that boys of a young age were sent to war in those days???? (here's the date)

Anyway, nice shot of Ataturk on the other forum. Interesting to see how he wears the EK1 and the Turkish Star...

Edited March 15, 2007 by TerryG

[Ulsterman]

personally i think he's about age 28-30 in that photo.

[Humberto Corado]

1-This photo was shot in 22/?/12

2-The young officer is a leutenant of navy

3- The gallipoli star began to be given in 1915-16. 7 years before the a/m date. This young officer ought to be at the age of 14 or 15.

Therefore the young officer ought to be the successor of the medal.

In the wake of the establishment of the republic in 1923 the decoration of all Ottoman medals was relinquished. After the republic only medal of Independance was permitted to carry by the officers.

hello all,

were the Turkish officers allowed to wear their father awards?? or was just an idea of this navy Leutnant to pose with his father medals???

thanks in advance!

[Tosun Saral]

Hello All, according to Turkish Republic's Law of "War of Independance Madal" the elder son could carry his fathers madal after his death even he is a civilian. The elder grandson and so on...

During Ottoman Turkish period the law of medal also permitted the elder son to carry his fathers madals. For that reason I insist that this young officer is carying his late fathers medala proudly.

After the declaration of republic it was forbitten to carry Ottoman decorations.

[TerryG]

Hello Tosun Bey

Are you able to read and translate the old Turkish writing which is at the back on the photo under the date (as posted above)? Thanks.

[Humberto Corado]

Hello All, according to Turkish Republic's Law of "War of Independance Madal" the elder son could carry his fathers madal after his death even he is a civilian. The elder grandson and so on...

During Ottoman Turkish period the law of medal also permitted the elder son to carry his fathers madals. For that reason I insist that this young officer is carying his late fathers medala proudly.

After the declaration of republic it was forbitten to carry Ottoman decorations.

Thank you Mr. Saral

[infantry]

Dear All,

The transcription is wrong. It is not 22/?/12 but 33/12/13 or more correctly 13/12/33. In Ottoman hand-writing (rika) you wrote as if printed number 2 but read 3 (sorry I could not able to put Arabic numerals).

The date was written in Rumi (Ottoman official calender) so the exact Georgian equivalent is December 13, 1917. I do not have the Ottoman date transcription guide with me right now, so the date might be within the error of + -13 days.

TerryG, if you post better resolution of the reverse I might able to read the written note.

Regards

[infantry]

By the way the Navy officer was wearing in addition to EK2 and Gallipoli Star (actually Harb Madalyası-War Medal) silver (2nd class) combat merit medal (G?m?ş Liy?kat Madalyası).

Regards

[TerryG]

Here it is again. I am not sure about your guess of the middle numbers (my ?). One of these numbers is obvioulsy a 1 but the other cannot be a 2 based on the way that the "2" are written elsewhere, in perfect arabic script. Can you explain?

Edited June 11, 2007 by TerryG

[TerryG]

If you are able to read old Turkish, can you translate this which is at the back of another photo I have: