Soviet 1943 Regulations for the Conversion of Medals

[Christophe]

Thanks Christian.

These are good arguments that make sense. But, I continue to believe these practical reasons were only a part - even if a major one - of the numerous ones that lead to the radical change in regulation (new ribbons, position...).

Ch.

[JimZ]

It was not an easy thing to change teh previously given suspension orders into the same but with screw clamp under war conditions and vice versa. Generally, it was done during the preparation for the Victory Parade in May-June 1945. (...)"

Is that when the conversions were actually made?

[Ed_Haynes]

This continues to be an interesting thread. This is of value only so long as we never forget that, absent evidence, we are just pitching out wild guesses. It is a shame that a mutual friend who had once considered doing a graduate degree in history now seems to have abandoned that idea; he would have been addressing issues of the evolution of honors in the former USSR, applying his considerable language skills, and using archives to which he already has pretty good access. So, until someone actually does the research and examines the sources, we may have nothing better than our wild yet interesting suppositions.

[Christophe]

Is that when the conversions were actually made?

That's how I understand it, from Kutsenko's book.

Ch.

[Christophe]

This continues to be an interesting thread. This is of value only so long as we never forget that, absent evidence, we are just pitching out wild guesses. (...).

I agree, Ed.

Pure speculation, here... Unfortunately...

Ch.

[Ed_Haynes]

Pure speculation, here... Unfortunately...

But at least it is pure, if it were impure speculation, . . .

[Christophe]

But at least it is pure, if it were impure speculation, . . .

Ed,

We are amongst "pure" gentlemen...

Ch.

[Ed_Haynes]

Still . . . to get us back on topic . . . I wish SOMEONE would actually look into the archives to answer such questions as these. Honors -- especially to the extent that there is any underlyoing "system" -- are important (and generally ignored) manifestations of the workings of any political and social system. We could learn a lot -- and not just things of interest to Folks Like Us -- from a serious professional examination of the changing role of honors within the Soviet State.

[JimZ]

Ed,

I think that a translation of the 1943 decree could possibly help throw some light on the logic behind the changes. Of course.... till such decree can be made available and translated, we will not know if it helps or not! Catch 22!

Of course it has been very interesting having the various contributions and suggestions. However, I too believe that we are far from identifying the logic behind the changes and at the end of the day, even when we do, we will still find ourselves asking why the 100 yrs of Lenin and the Distinguished service medals came along as they did!

Notwithstanding, supposition or not, its good to hear what you guys think about this!

Jim

[Christophe]

(...). However, I too believe that we are far from identifying the logic behind the changes (...)

Jim

Hi Jim,

You're right, but do we have to talk about the logic or the logics ?

Even if we found the decree, I doubt it will answer all our question ?

Cheers.

Ch.

[Belaruski]

The ribbon issue is clearly a factor. As mentioned earlier Nevsky. valour, military merit etc. all were on red ribbons, so as new orders and medals were introduced it became neccesary to differentiate them on ribbon bars.

Incidentaly I love the 1st types as they are the in the original 'Bolshevik spirit' as opposed to the Russian tradition. Same as the 1943 uniform change, which is another possibility in this question.

The image of the Army was changed to be more 'traditional' as the war became a patriotic war. The revival of Imperial Russian heroes: Kutuzov, Suvurov, and Nevsky also meant the traditional 5 sided mount returned for medals, and large shoulder boards.