Nack Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 Nice hats Nack!I have to be honest though, I'm not sure if the 1940 stamp is original, simply because it says 'Moscow'. Without a hint of who made it. No code number or factory name. I'm not commenting on the cap, just the stamp. Have you got Webster and Nelson's Red Army uniforms book? They have excellent photos of wartme stamps and earlier.But I love the OGPU visor!Thanks. As to the stamp, I know its a bit wierd, and I too have not seen another like it. I have the Webster/Nelson book as well as the Shalito book, but neither really sheds light on the stamp. I think the stamp says 1945 or 1948 to be honest. The hat is certainly old, from mid 40s to mid 50s for sure. I've noticed that dating this stuff is hard. Whatever the date, its a nice hat, which looks good with the uniform it is displayed with.
RichieC Posted January 19, 2007 Posted January 19, 2007 I have sent off images of your (Nack) NKVD visor cap to Voronov, and, for further input, to a Russian language group that I check into from time to time, where there exists a few knowledgeable men... I have inquired with them concerning the round visor attribute and how it coincides with what I wrote previously about it existing on late 30s/early 40s caps. This subject (of visors) has always been one especially of interest to me. Date/mfg/depot/reissue stamps, & "museum" markings also. However, most of the time, the latter I have determined turn out to be merely a tool of the unscrupulous seller...As soon as I have replies, I will show them here accordingly. Nack, please, let us see the uniform you speak of that goes with your cap. I, and would assume the others, enjoy viewing what others have and discussing it.
Nack Posted January 20, 2007 Posted January 20, 2007 (edited) Nack, please, let us see the uniform you speak of that goes with your cap. I, and would assume the others, enjoy viewing what others have and discussing it.Your wish is my command It is one of my favorites.And thanks again for sending the pics to the expert. Edited January 20, 2007 by Nack
RichieC Posted January 20, 2007 Posted January 20, 2007 My wish is that you box it up, less cap, orders, & medals if you want to keep at least some memento(s) of your former ownership of such a nice thing, and send it to me Global Express Mail with full insurance so I may have a comprehensive look-see... Whether or not I return it is another issue...Golly...
RichieC Posted January 20, 2007 Posted January 20, 2007 ...and BTW, there exist NO experts. However, there are a few out there that know hell of a lot.
Belaruski Posted January 20, 2007 Author Posted January 20, 2007 Nack that is a beautiful tunic!The 1943 Mundir is one of my favourites and an NKVD one... wow!If you don't wish to send it to Richie, I could look after it for you..
Daredevil Posted January 20, 2007 Posted January 20, 2007 NKVD, Double breasted, AND with silver embroidery and boards for administration of the NKVD; ultra-rare.
Riley1965 Posted January 20, 2007 Posted January 20, 2007 Thanks for the FANTASTIC pics of these caps!!! Are they more expensive than other caps? Doc
Nack Posted January 20, 2007 Posted January 20, 2007 (edited) Thank you all for the nice comments, and generous offers to open space in my collection. I'll give it some thought, but it probably wont have much traction The hats seem to vary widely in price. NKVD items in general command a premium. I know a guy who has another blue NKVD frontier troops budyonovka if you want one Edited January 20, 2007 by Nack
Nack Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 Questions as to authenticity of the "1940s-dated" cap have come up, so I thought I'd post some more pictures to see what folks think. Here goes...
Nack Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 Questions as to authenticity of the "1940s-dated" cap have come up, so I thought I'd post some more pictures to see what folks think. Here goes...
Nack Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) And another. This is one of the rivits attaching one of the buttons. Edited January 21, 2007 by Nack
Nack Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 (edited) Here's the general shape. Looking for good news Edited January 21, 2007 by Nack
RichieC Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 Here's the general shape. Looking for good news It is certainly not a fake cap in my opinion Nack. Without even touching it, I can see it from here. Judging from my experiences, the sweatband is correct for late 40s/early 50s mfg. The chinstrap is not one of those flimsy, paper thin ones that are on the fakes, and the visor has nice age patina and crazing also. As Stewart wrote earlier, the only thing that does not seem right is the stamp. It could be a legit, but I think that more likely than not, it simply could have been added at one point in the past to increase the sale price by a few bucks. Us gullible Westerners just LOVE date stamps and markings. Really....
RichieC Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 It is certainly not a fake cap in my opinion Nack. Without even touching it, I can see it from here. Judging from my experiences, the sweatband is correct for late 40s/early 50s mfg. The chinstrap is not one of those flimsy, paper thin ones that are on the fakes, and the visor has nice age patina and crazing also. As Stewart wrote earlier, the only thing that does not seem right is the stamp. It could be a legit, but I think that more likely than not, it simply could have been added at one point in the past to increase the sale price by a few bucks. Us gullible Westerners just LOVE date stamps and markings. Really.......and BTW. The chinstrap buttons that are affixed with the prongs are a sign of late 40s/ 50s mfg also.
Daredevil Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 i think the 1948 stamp is ok; it fits the age of the hat and I have seen others. The more common problem is rubbing away part of the '8' and making it into a '0' to fool some collectors into paying double for a 1940 NKVD cap rather than a postwar 1948 MGB cap.
RichieC Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 The more common problem is rubbing away part of the '8' and making it into a '0' to fool some collectors into paying double for a 1940 NKVD cap rather than a postwar 1948 MGB cap.Right on Daredevil... I remember in "the beginning" that this was a common thing. There were so may pieces with real date/mfg stamps that "mysteriously" had the last digit or two crudely erased. Even worse, more than once I have seen a hunk of fabric missing from that same spot. I have a few pieces that possess that notable feature. I'll dig them up and take a few images just for conversation's sake.It is a pity though that nowadays, there is such a flood of 100% "fuflo" things out there, and that people are gobbling them up simply because it has a stamp (which is just as fake as the item it resides in)...
Nack Posted January 21, 2007 Posted January 21, 2007 As I stated at the beginning, I don't personally have authenticity iasues with the cap, as the seller is QUITE reputable But, as to the stamp--who knows? Really tho, who cares? If its actually from 1948, cool. If its 1954, still cool. Its still a nice piece that looks fab with with the tunic I'm just glad that no one thought it was totally fake.In any event, I think its been an interesting discussion, which illustrates to others that, as with other things, "God is in the details." Thanks for participating in the fun
Lapa Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 (edited) Nack,Somehow, I had previously missed this thread. Having a close and careful look at your NKVD cap, I must say that I am far from enthused with it. It has all the trademarks of local workshop production. Compare with the one RussiaMilitaria has just posted, the differences are glaring.Would this cap come from a "reputable dealer" located in NJ?Marc Edited September 8, 2008 by Lapa
Nack Posted September 8, 2008 Posted September 8, 2008 Nack,Somehow, I had previously missed this thread. Having a close and careful look at your NKVD cap, I must say that I am far from enthused with it. It has all the trademarks of local workshop production. Compare with the one RussiaMilitaria has just posted, the differences are glaring.Would this cap come from a "reputable dealer" located in NJ?MarcMarc -- the cap indeed traveled from NJ, not Tenafly NJ though. There is very convincing wear both to the visor and sweatband. Are you of the opinion it was artificially aged?~Nack
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