Nick Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I saw from a distance the other day an enamel badge which purported to be some kind of German-Japanese good relations tinnie. It was dated 1939, was enamelled and had the two nations flags on the top front. It looked a fantasy piece to me, although I did not get the opportunity to examine it or photo it.Anyone know anything about this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scowen Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 What was it's shape? There are round ones, triangle ones & rectangular ones. The triangles are total fantasy pieces, the round ones are disputed some believe they are good but I along with several others feel these are also fantasy. The rectangular ones did exist but are extremely rare, I've seen images of them in wear & in reference books but so far never in real life.I've got some images on file at home of the fake fantasy pieces, when I return from work I'll post them.CheersDon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scowen Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Right, here we go.The first one come in a variety of colours, yours brand new for ?5 or aged for around ?70.....This one I haven't seen openly on sale as a reproduction but I strongly doubt that they existed.CheersDon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted February 6, 2007 Author Share Posted February 6, 2007 DonThanks my gut feeling was it was a fantasy piece. It was similar to first one being triangular in shape and having a similar if not identical lettering, but the eagle, style coloring and enamelling were identical to the second badge so I would almost guarantee that the second is from the same producer and is also fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURGERHAUS Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Gents And the year on the round badge more often than not is 1942. I do see this for sale and sold by "reputable collectors/dealers" for $100 US+. I called one dealer/collector on this and got some of the most blatant "pretzel logic" I had ever been fed. I still have his e-mail saved to this day. I own a 1942 example but will not put it in with my collection or talk my way to a sale. If anyone would like a copy of said mail, just let me know. Take Care Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Hello fellows,I have one of the round types and while I don't collect Nazi German items I do think mine is the real deal. I purchased it or got it in trade (long time ago, short memory) and put it with some odds and ends of German items. The eagle is more like the example in the diamond shaped specimen and the Nazi symbol in the small circle is missing the white enamel but is on a black background and not the white as in your photo. The date is 1944 and the number in the boarder is 6 rather than 4 as in your photo. Mine is showing what I believe actual age and not artificial aged. The overall colouration of mine is rather dark and not like-new. The areas that I believe were white are now a copper colour. I've always wondered what these were issued for but since I don't collect German I just filed it away under "etc." in my collection. If anyone knows what these were given out for I would like to know.CheersBrianP.S. It would not be the first time I've been fooled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 I just noticed that the word "AKAD" on the one in the photograph is "ARAD" on mine.CheersBrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURGERHAUS Posted February 6, 2007 Share Posted February 6, 2007 Hello Brian If possible, is there any way you can put up an image of your badge from front and back? I am curious to see a 1944. The 1944 I have seen and hels was not concave but flat and a darker color. Thank You Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scowen Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 To be honest, I'm even more sceptical of the '44's than the others. Think of the situation at the time, German forces were being pushed back in the East, their surface ships virtually confined to port. Japan was also starting to feel the full force of the allied powers, would they find a way to send their most gifted students half way round the world presumably by ship?Also, the '44 badges like the earlier years are enamel. All other badges of that year were made of zinc or other cheap materials & lacquered/painted rather than enamelled. Are you sure it says ARAD? It should be AKAD as this is short for Akademie-Tagung. Please do post imges of the front & back if you can as it's always nice to see what's out there. CheersDon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURGERHAUS Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Don The logic behind 1944 makes sense. Also, are there any photos of the round badge in wear from any of the years this badge was "awarded"? Cone only shows a photo of the badge itself. Cheers Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scowen Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I haven't seen any pictures showing the badges seen here in wear. There are images of the badges given to the HJ groups that visited Japan in 1938 & 1940 but that is all, both of these badges were of a totally different design to the ones seen on this thread.Small groups of Japanese students also visited Germany in this period. Except for one picture, none of the photos taken at the time show them wearing any badges. The one that does was taken at the 1938 Reichsparteitag in which they appear to be wearing the RPT badge of the day.Talking of the Cone badge, have you noticed the odd crimping used on the pin plate? I've seen this on other badges that worry me as well.CheersDon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURGERHAUS Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 (edited) Yes Don I did notice that. Also, his example is unmarked. The 1942 I have is marked Alois Klammer. I can dig it out and scan but it will take me a while to find it. I can't exactly recall where I stashed it. I put it with my M9 Fire Brigade First Class in my garage crawl space but am unsure where. Robert Edited February 7, 2007 by BURGERHAUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Hello fellows,I'm sorry but my software will not allow me to post any photos at this time. I will have to play with this darn computer on the weekend to see if I can figure out the magic formula.My pin is flat and it has the letters ARAD not AKAD. It has a pin on the back and the wording, HOFFSTATTOR/BONN around the top edge and CES CESCH along the bottom. I agree with the consensus that 1944 was not the best of time for the Axis and further any join conferences would be unlikely. I've seen a lot of old artifacts and the one I have sure looks like it has been around since the time stated on the front (1944). There is a patina to it that would be very difficulr to artificially produce. I wonder if it was manufactured well in advance of the proposed conference that never took place. I am reminded of a British Service Corps collar dog I have with King Edward VIII on it. I will keep trying to post photos of this pin, as frustrating as the exercise is to someone of advancing age. CheersBrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scowen Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 Brian,Do you have images of the badge? If you do you can send them to me if you wish & I'll pop them up for you. If you wish to try this send me a PM & I'll give you mey email address.Robert,The one I posted above is also marked for AK, here it is.CheersDon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scowen Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Brian has sent me images of his badge, I've resized them to post here. I'll email Brian my views before posting them here. Anyone else care to comment first?CheersDon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scowen Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 The all important reverse....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 The eagle looks very similar to the eagle on Don's triangle badge picture as does the colouring of the enamel. I do not like the sunwheel swastika in the national flag either should not be used in that form as well as the fact it is the wrong angle. Not good in my limited opinion and another fake/fantasy item? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosenberg Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 The company is spelled with ?E?not an ?O?. ARAD doesnt make sense either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Burchell Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 I agree with the comments in post #18 above and would add that it should not be "C" in the words "Ges. Gesch." - all of which is further evidence as to the questionable authenticity of the 1944 badge shown in post #15.Regarding the 1942 badge shown in post #3, I would draw your attention to a well-researched article by Mr. Wilhelm P.B.R. Saris appearing in the Fall 2005 edition of "The Military Advisor" entitled, "The German-Japanese Youth Exchange Badges: A Known and Unknown Oddity". While the badge in question is not pictured or discussed in any detail there, reference is made to youth exchange visits between Japan and Germany and "...the first meeting, known as 'erste japanisch-deutsche Akademikertagung.' " Footnote 10 on page 29 makes the following reference: "Ibid, 70-01-40/1364 which talks about the 2nd 'Deutsch-japanische Akademikertagung.' This and later meetings, as far as is known, were always held in Germany or Austria. All observed enameled badges for the 4th meeting which have the German and Japanese flags included, and marked 'Alois Klammer' are considered 'fakes' ".Hope this to be helpful.Regards,John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Greeting all,A fake in my collection!!!? Well, there goes the neighbourhood! Now, anyone have any prime swamp land they want to sell me? Many thanks to all who have helped to uncover this fraud.CheersBrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURGERHAUS Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Greeting all,A fake in my collection!!!? Well, there goes the neighbourhood! Now, anyone have any prime swamp land they want to sell me? Many thanks to all who have helped to uncover this fraud.CheersBrianBrian Don't feel like the lone ranger. Thanks to you and Don for posting your 1944. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scowen Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Well Gentlemen, whilst all the points raised as to why this badge is a fake are indeed quite valid I'm astonished that the most important & obvious clue has been overlooked. The first point of call for any enamel collector is the the reverse of the badge, on this one we see the narrow oval pinplate with clipped off ends. These are only ever found on post war produced pins....... Thank you John for mentioning Wil Saris' excellent article, I know it well.CheersDon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURGERHAUS Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 I thought i would post my 1942 example. This particular badge is present in one of Angolia's references. A member of another forum has that particular book and hopefully he will help shed some light on these. Will inform as information becomes available. I personally don't like this badge. Why so many 1942's would be my first concern. A respected collector/dealer went so far as to tell me there were more 1942s because that was the first year of the Axis alliance in World War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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