Saxon St Henry, Baden War Effort and Albert 4 medal bar

[Paul C]

The bar contains they following and has a green back:

1. 1914 EK2

2. Saxon St. Henry Silver

3. Baden War Effort

4. Saxon Albert Medal with swords

5. Hindenburg w/sw

6. Centennial

I used the saxon awards rolls to find anyone who has the St. Henry (SHsm) and the Albert Medal (SAsM). If my methods were correct there were on 30 Saxon Officers with this configuration. They are:

Ackermann, Oskar FwLt IR 133

Bichtemann, Felix FwLt RIR 103

Deinert, Max FwLt RJ?gB 13

Ellenrieder, Otto FHilfsArzt EIR 23

Fehre, Oskar FwLt FAR 48

Froeba, Herbert FwLt RIR 106

Frommolt, G?nther FHilfsArzt IR 134

Greif, Ulrich FHilfsArzt IR 107

Haarmann, Paul FHilfsArzt IR 106

Hahn, Bernhard FwLt RJ?gB 13

Hentschel, Richard FwLt LIR 103

Hiller, Emil FwLt LdstIB XII-20

Kollberg, Paul FHilfsArzt RIR 244

Kuntzsch, Arthur FwLt ResPK XIX-3

Liebsch, Alfred FwLt GrLR 100

Lotze, Artur FwLt RIR 242

Mallwitz, Albert FwLt RFu?AR 19

M?ller, Oswald FwLt RIR 245

N?tzold, Karl FwLt LdstIR 19

O?wald, Rudolf FHilfsArzt d.R. FLaz 118

Otto, Karl MusikMstr FAR 68

Quade, Otto FwLt EIR 24

Reichel, Albin FHilfsArzt IR 105

Reinhardt, Emil FwLt RIR 104

Rei?mann, Georg FwLt IR 473

Rolle, Karl FwLt RIR 103

Sachse, Oskar FwLt LstFu?AB XIX

Schulz, Karl FwLt IR 178

Schulze, Heinrich FwLt RFAR 40

Weise, Karl FHilfsArzt IR 106

I drawn your attention to Karl Rolle and Felix Bichtemann. Both were with RIR 103. If I understand the structure of the Saxon Army reserve officer were attached to unit and support those units. So I can say they were part of IR 103. The Saxon IR 103 Chef was the Duke of Baden. Is it possible he gave out the Baden War Effort medal to deserving officers? I welcome all opinions.

Edited February 16, 2007 by Paul C

[Paul C]

Does anyone know which Saxon army units would have recieved the Centennial medal?

[Dave Danner]

LIR 103 was also a "Tochterformation" of IR 103, as was the II.Bataillon of RIR 242.

The III.Bataillon of IR 192 was also formed by IR 103, but there are no IR 192 names on your list. The III.Bataillon of IR 415 was formed by the Ersatz-Bataillon of RIR 103, but IR 415 was more formally attached to IR 177, and there aren't any IR 415 names on your list.

[Paul C]

Dave, thanks for the additional information.

[Stogieman]

In order to have received that Albrecht's Kreuz mit Schwerter, he must have been an NCO, long-serving.... where's his LS award? Also, while not impossible, I find it very difficult to accept the Albrecht's Cross placed behind the Baden cross....

Also, you refer to this as the Albert Medal, it's not... it's the Albrecht's Kreuz.

Now, having said this, the construction and ribbons all look historicly accurate to me. BUT, at that point, I wonder if what we have here is the addition of the rarer Kreuz with swords... The precedence would be correct if the Albert Order ribbon had originally been a peace-time award of some type... BUT, that does not obviate the rather glaring absence of a long service medal and/or cross.

Interesting, but these are legitimite questions you must consider...

[Deruelle]

Hi everybody,

I know it's an old thread but it's very interresting.

Here Dave is talking only about infantery unit. But what for the others units.

I have an example.

Oberstleutnant Karl Brück received the centenary medal in 1897 when he was Oberleutnant in FAR Nr. 28.

This unit belonged to 23. Feld Art Brigade (with FAR Nr. 12 and FAR Nr. 48). I have just seen this in the Saxon RL from 1901.

It would be interresting to see now which unit received this medal.

Christophe

[Dave Danner]

I don't think that Brück received the medal because he was in FAR 28. Others in that regiment in 1897 don't have it. I can't be sure, but I think he received it because he was commanded to the Militär-Reit-Institut in Hannover at the time.

The Saxon rank lists don't include the medal. The Königlich sächsische Militär-Verordnungsblatt for 1897 and 1898 has several decrees about the medal, but none identify specific units.

[Dave Danner]

OK, somewhat more detailed but also a bit of a guess, if Saxony had the same or similar rules as Bavaria:

The Bavarian rank lists, unlike the Prussian and Saxon, do include the Centenary Medal. I reviewed the December 1897 Bavarian rank list and identified which officers received the medal. I also checked this against some later RLs and against the Kriegsranglisten where I could find the person. From what I can tell, Bavarian recipients fall into 4 categories:

1. Veterans of 1870/71 war.

2. Officers serving, even temporarily, in Prussian units, schools, etc. For example, Eduard Doehla and Anton Löhr (both later "Ritter von") received the Centenary Medal while at the Prussian Militär-Turnanstalt in 1897. Ludwig Seeger, then with the 5. bay. FAR, received the Centenary while assigned to the Prussian Artillerie-Prüfungs-Kommission. Karl von Nagel zu Aichberg got his while Adjutant of the IV.Armee-Inspektion. Luitpold Freiherr von Horn was commanded to the Great General Staff in Berlin. Maximilian Graf von Zech auf Neuhofen was a student at the Prussian Feldartillerie-Schießschule.

3. Active officers in certain units. In these units, it appears every officer was eligible. Surprisingly, they are not the units to which the Kaiser or a Prussian prince was Inhaber. Instead, they were the Bavarian units then in Alsace-Lorraine. They were:

- 4. Inf.-Regt., Metz, part of the 10. Inf.-Brig.

- 8. Inf.-Regt., Metz, part of the 10. Inf.-Brig.

- 3. Chev.-Regt., Dieuze, part of the 5. Kav.-Brig.

- 5. Chev.-Regt., Saargemünd, part of the 5. Kav.-Brig.

- I. Btl./2. Fußart.-Regt., Metz

- III. Btl./2. Fußart.-Regt., Metz

Also, most of the officers of the II.Btl./23.bay.IR in Saargemünd also had the Centenary Medal. This battalion was formed in April 1897 from the 13. and 14. companies of the 4.bay.IR and of the 8.bay.IR.

4. Finally, a random assortment of about 40 other officers I can't account for. Many were reserve officers and might have had a civilian connection to Prussia. Some I just don't know. For instance, Friedrich Ritter von Bogendörfer was regimental adjutant of 6. Inf.-Regt. from 1895 to 1900. No other regular officers of his regiment got the Centenary Medal. Bogendörfer had previously received the Crown Order 4th Class in 1896.

--

So, if Saxony followed similar rules, besides veterans of the Franco-Prussian War and officers serving in Prussian units, there were two Saxon units whose officers were probably all eligible. These were Inf.-Regt. Nr. 105, in Straßburg i.E. under the Prussian XV. Armeekorps, and Fußart.-Regt. Nr. 12, in Metz under the Prussian XVI. Armeekorps.

Regards,

Dave