Cleaning a ribbon

[Carol I]

Do you have any tips/suggestions as to how to clean the ribbon below without damaging it? It appears to have old glue residue on the reverse.

[Carol I]

[Carol I]

[Tom Y]

Since it's on the back I don't think I'd bother,but you could try distilled water and an artist's brush.

I have an Austrian group that was "preserved" with a coat of Elmer's Glue and my one attempt at cleaning was a total disaster

[Carol I]

Since it's on the back I don't think I'd bother,but you could try distilled water and an artist's brush.

I have an Austrian group that was "preserved" with a coat of Elmer's Glue and my one attempt at cleaning was a total disaster

Thanks Tom. It seems the attachment hook is broken, so I suspect 'they' tried to find a way to keep the ribbon closed. The bad thing is that on top of the glue there are bits of paper. Well, if the risk is to ruin the ribbon while trying to clean it, maybe I should just leave it alone.

[Guest Rick Research]

OLD glue is probably water soluble BUT you might end up smearing the ribbon colors and on a SILK ribbon you will always completely remove any moir? pattern in the ribbon. If it is synthetic fibers that shouldn't happen, but I agree. It is out of sight and trying to get it off can only make things worse.

[Carol I]

OLD glue is probably water soluble BUT you might end up smearing the ribbon colors and on a SILK ribbon you will always completely remove any moir? pattern in the ribbon. If it is synthetic fibers that shouldn't happen, but I agree. It is out of sight and trying to get it off can only make things worse.

Thanks Rick. I decided to leave it as it is since there are so many risks with washing the ribbon. I will only try to see if there are any bits of the glue that would just peel off, but that will be all.

Thanks again to you and to Tom.

[JimZ]

If it cannot be seen I'd leave it alone as there is a chance that you cause some other damage or stains with water passing through the ribbon and showing on the front!

The older the ribbon, the easier it is to damage it!

Regards,

Jim

Edited February 28, 2007 by JimZ

[Carol I]

Thanks Jim. Following your warnings I've decided to leave the ribbon as it is for fear of damaging it.

A bit off topic now, does anyone know how is the moir? pattern achieved on a ribbon?

[JimZ]

In my part of the world a "moire" ribbon can also be described as a "watered silk" ribbon

Whereas I never asked the question myself, I have always thought that as the name implied, this must be some sort of water based process at manufacture.

SOURCE: Wikipedia

"Watered silk is a type of silk fabric which has been passed through a set of rollers as a fabric finishing process, to give the surface a moir? pattern which looks like a water surface."

SOURCE: http://www.virtue.to/fabric/12_Silk.html

Watered silk: a term which is applied to two different techniques.

1: Silk that has had a design printed on the warp before weaving. After it is woven, the design looks as if it had been dampened, or made indistinct or 'watery'.

2: Moire: this silk (or other fabric) looks as if it is some kind of optic interference pattern. Which is somewhat what it is. Two lengths of heavy-thread silk are dampened and then smushed together with great force; where the threads cross (or not) they are pressed down in a unique pattern. Also can be done with engraved rollers.

I think this pretty much answers your query in brief!

Jim

[Carol I]

Quite interesting, Jim. Thank you.

[JimZ]

A pleasure!

Some times one needs somebody else to ask the question that you have always been wanting to ask!

Jim

[SasaYU]

Any suggestions on how to clean ribbons or ribbon bars in generally?

[Ed_Haynes]

Any suggestions on how to clean ribbons or ribbon bars in generally?

Generally? My advice: Don't.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[Brian Wolfe]

Any suggestions on how to clean ribbons or ribbon bars in generally?

I have found out the hard way, many years ago, never to attempt to clean ribbons.

In my opinion a worn and soiled ribbon indicates it was worn often by its recipient.

Why attempt to remove this well earned wear?

It's almost like removing part of the ribbon bar's history.

Cheers

Brian

[Hugh]

Some of the ribbons in my collection are so old that they are disintegrating - threads separating along the width, etc. Any thoughts on how to stabilise them; prevent further decay?

Hugh

[Dieter3]

Some of the ribbons in my collection are so old that they are disintegrating - threads separating along the width, etc. Any thoughts on how to stabilise them; prevent further decay?

Hugh

I would recommend you consult with a conservationist! Obviously, you should handle/move them at an extreme minimum to combat mechanical degradation and minimize exposure to light if you're not already doing so, especially sunlight and fluorescent. When moved or handled, try to give them the utmost, uniform support possible, preferably without having to directly handle the object itself. None of my items are handled with bare hands, only cotton or nitrile gloves. I wrap the awards in unbuffered, acid-free tissue. These are then kept in some sort of support vessel whether it be their original cases (which may or may not be a good idea for long-term storage depending on what they are made out of and their potential to off-gas molecules that may degrade the award over the long haul....) or other special boxes made for archival storage. Either scenario, the items are then subdivided into larger archival storage boxes made of materials to combat air pollutants. Have a look at this:

http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/...icroChamber.htm

I think this technology seems reasonable short of serious (and costly!) environmental control. (Though if you can control the relative humidity at all, aim for 40% - this seems to be the recommendation by several textile conservationists with whom I've spoken, and this applies to lots of other materials as well.) The initial costs may or may not be moderate depending on your collection, but if you have rare/valuable items, the costs for conservation are negligible.

None of this is convenient if you want to frequently view or display your collection, but if your goal is conservation, it should help!

[Hugh]

Thanks for all this; it's both interesting and helpful. I'm torn between display and conservation, and it sounds as though the pendulum needs to swing a bit more toward conservation, at least for the older items. I'll delve into the website to see what else I'm missing. I appreciate your help.

Best,

Hugh

[Guest Rick Research]

"Some of the ribbons in my collection are so old that they are disintegrating - threads separating along the width, etc. Any thoughts on how to stabilise them; prevent further decay?"

Sadly, like leather rot, I know of nothing that can reverse or halt this sort of internal (not related to poor storage etc) decomposition. I had a Hamburg Hanseatic Cross awarded in 1917 as part of an entire group-- fine for years and years. Had it tucked away in storage and hadn't looked at it in some years-- all nicely wrapped up in acid free paper etc and its ribbon had simply gone to dust like an Egyptian mummy.

I suspect that the problem with vintage silk ribbons is the dye chemicals used in them. They were simply never meant to be eternal. When their time comes, that's it.

The randomness is surprising. On a German medal bar, one ribbon can fray to shreds all by itself (age not wear) while all the others remain pristine. There was my 1917, fine in 2000, dust in 2005. Yet I've seen ribbons for Napoleonic campaign medals that may date from the 1850s or 1860s still in strong condition that look like they're good for another 150 years. Of course, so did the Hamburg Hanseatic-- in 2000.

[Dieter3]

One thing to keep in mind, or so I'm led to believe, is that acid-free, unbuffered (pH neutral) paper though correct for textile preservation, will be limited by how the entire wrapped object is subsequently stored. The unbuffered tissue is still subject to absorbing pollutants and with enough time can go acidic, then offering less protection to the wrapped object or perhaps even transferring harmful molecules to it, hence the use of secondary containment that is buffered or otherwise engineered to absorb acids and pollutants from the external environment. Not that this was necessarily your issue, but do you think this may have contributed?

As you pointed out, it is of course interesting to note awards that were highly unlikely to have had an sort of special care or conservation applied to them, yet they are just fine!

[Tim B]

Hello everyone,

I thought I would add a comment to this old thread after a recent attempt to clean a ribbon of glue similar to the one Carol started the thread with back in 2007.

I just received a nice Belgian Croix de Guerre with several attachments and unknown to me when I purchased it, it had been glued to a board at one point and now there is glue residue and blue paper backing left on the reverse top portion of the ribbon. I am always hesitant to "play" with things this old, but I can't help want to try as I feel I have nothing to lose either, so...

What I did was this; I started with warm water to remove the paper and hoped the glue would soften or dissolve if water soluble. I didn't want to use too hot of water as I feared it would fade the ribbon colors.

Well, the glue was not a water soluable type but, figuring the glue residue would still be better than having blue paper showing, I continued. It did remove some of the paper, but not enough and then I slowly increased the temperature (I'm using tap water from a running faucet) and noticed the glue was not a white base glue (like Elmers)but a type of epoxy that slowly did start to soften and turn a lighter color. I finally got all the paper removed and seen a couple of areas where the glue started to lift.

So, CAREFULLY and slowly, I used a small knife and pair of tweezers to scrape and lift the glue little by little until all that remained was in the grooves between ribbon rows, which after some time, I eventually got rid of that material as well. It takes time and paitience, but in the end I removed 99% of the glue residue and the ribbon, though discolored slightly from the glue, was not faded at all, despite using hot water to clean it.

After that, I used a hair dryer to dry everything so I had no moisture left around the attachments. When I get a chance, I'll post a couple of pictures of the results. I don't have any "before" shots, but they were a little worse than the ones Carol posted on her example.

Maybe I got lucky, but in the end I am very happy with the results! Sometimes you have to take a chance IMO.

Tim

[SasaYU]

Tim B, please post the pictures.

Your post will not be complete without "before" pictures , but anyway it will be nice to see a succesfull rescue.

I am happy that you made it .

[Tim B]

Hi Sasa!

Sorry for the delay; had some personal issues that have been taking up my time lately and am just now getting back to this one.

Here's a composite of the sales PICS; note how the seller omitted the top portion of the reverse? Always an indication that something is up. Anyway, the top portion of the missing area was covered in a thick, medium blue paper backing (almost the same color as the PIC's background) which was glued on. I figure it was probably mounted on a display board.

Tim

[Tim B]

Again, no "before" shot, but here's a front/back of the piece afterwards and I am pretty happy considering I could be looking at blue paper backing and glue residue.

Tim

[Tim B]

A closeup of the area in question. You can see the ribbon is roughened a bit due to the glue adhesion, but still, I think it's better than if it had been left alone.

Again, the glue appears to have been some type of epoxy and not white water-soluble (elmers) type. I think the results would have been even better had it been more soluble.

Tim :cheers: