Gordon Williamson Posted July 23, 2005 Author Posted July 23, 2005 Isn't that the dent row?And this a frosted RK?←Brian,No, there is no dent row on this cross. The frosting is the type Dietrich has referred to as "painted".
Gordon Williamson Posted July 23, 2005 Author Posted July 23, 2005 Hello Gordon. I'm glad you're talking about S&L's here. You no doubt read Dietrich's great research in discovering what I am convinced is a repair to the die that created the row of 'dents'. You kindly used my S&L which we now know has the dent row. Can you still say based on workmanship, core and other features that this cross of mine is a wartime cross?Thank you.←Brian,If you refer to your S&L RK on Page 311 of my book, I'd be happy to have that one in my collection any time. I have no doubts about it.
Guest Brian von Etzel Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 Brian,If you refer to your S&L RK on Page 311 of my book, I'd be happy to have that one in my collection any time. I have no doubts about it.←Ha, I have no problem providing it a home either. But I do think that your cross has the famous dent row and with the frosting puts the frosting on some of Dietrich's comments regarding the lack of such on the 'B' Types. Could you provide better detail of this arm to better see it please?
Biro Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 ....It made me wonder if there was only one tool that stamped both marks.....←Hi LarryThese two examples will probably proove that the one stamp scenario is unlikely.regardsMarshall
Guest Brian von Etzel Posted July 23, 2005 Posted July 23, 2005 (edited) ...and Gordon, please don't think I'm trying to start a row here. I think you may hold the key to this war/post-war conundrum. I have no doubt of that which is and is not 'right'... Edited July 23, 2005 by Brian von Etzel
Larry Lipps Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 Marshall, thanks for posting another "right side up" version. Until you posted yours I didn't have another one to compare to. From your photos I agree that it's two different marks.
Gordon Williamson Posted July 24, 2005 Author Posted July 24, 2005 Ha, I have no problem providing it a home either. But I do think that your cross has the famous dent row and with the frosting puts the frosting on some of Dietrich's comments regarding the lack of such on the 'B' Types. Could you provide better detail of this arm to better see it please?←Brian,I have the first two examples in front of me right now and can provide any shots from any angle you like but unfortunately the one you are asking for is no longer with me. It was an identical twin to the second example shown. I know the images can be deceiving but I can assure you that it didn't have the dent row.
Gordon Williamson Posted July 24, 2005 Author Posted July 24, 2005 Marshall, thanks for posting another "right side up" version.? Until you posted yours I didn't have another one to compare to.? From your photos I agree that it's two different marks.←Larry/ Marshall, you are absolutely correct on this. I've always found suggestions that a large firm such as Steinhauer would only have one stamp ( I can just visualise the production working waiting in the queue for their turn at using the stamp) or one style of stamp - (stamps being carefully checked to see that the sloped angle of the "4" on the new stamp matches exactly that on the others), more than just faintly ridiculous.On the RK of the EK alone you have large 800, small 800, incused 800, 935 and two versions of the incused 4. Its not as if Steinhauer used a stylised company logo like GWL or Hermann Aurich where you'd expect a level of consistency. 4 is only a numeral for gawds sake !Just in addition to this, Steinhauer also used a straighforward stamped "4" (i.e. as opposed to the more common incuse relief stamp.) as can occasionally be found on the ribbon loop for their EK2s and on their RK of the KVK.
Dietrich Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 I've always found suggestions that a large firm such as Steinhauer would only have one stamp ( I can just visualise the production working waiting in the queue for their turn at using the stamp) or one style of stamp - (stamps being carefully checked to see that the sloped angle of the "4" on the new stamp matches exactly that on the others), more than just faintly ridiculous.On the RK of the EK alone you have large 800, small 800, incused 800, 935 and Oh, I couldn't agree more! The notion that EVERYTHING has to be absolutely the same, including finish of the ring, outer corners and what have you is really absolutely ridiculous. Dietrich
Gordon Williamson Posted July 24, 2005 Author Posted July 24, 2005 Oh, I couldn't agree more! The notion that EVERYTHING has to be absolutely the same, including finish of the ring, outer corners? and what have you is really absolutely ridiculous. Dietrich←Ah yes Dietrich my friend, but there are so many " five minute experts" around who, a year or so ago, were asking advice on how to tell a Steinhauer from a Juncker and are now basking in the "expert" status that having the spare funds to rush out and buy "safe" RKs and DKs from "safe" sources brings. Followed of course by the "ooohs " and "aahs" of their acolytes on certain forums Thankfully these twats seem to have realised that their presence is not welcome here.
Guest Darrell Posted July 24, 2005 Posted July 24, 2005 Ah yes Dietrich my friend, but there are so many " five minute experts" around who, a year or so ago, were asking advice on how to tell a Steinhauer from a Juncker and are now basking in the "expert" status that having the spare funds to rush out and buy "safe" RKs and DKs from "safe" sources brings. Followed of course by the "ooohs " and "aahs" of their acolytes on certain forums Exactly true Gordon ... and strangely enough, still absent from this forum. But somehow I don't think that will last long
notned Posted July 28, 2005 Posted July 28, 2005 Hello Gents,I was enjoying this forum and the beautifull pics of the RK,s but i especially loved the clear pic of the Grand cross, Thanks Gordon! RegardsPaulAlso can empathise with the sentiments about the "bought experts" lets do hope they do stay away...
Stogieman Posted July 28, 2005 Posted July 28, 2005 C'mon Gordon, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel!! I wouldn't know a good RK unless it was dropped in my lap by someone who does. Assuming from the get-go that I'd be lucky to handle one of these ever, I've only gained the knowledge from forums and guys like you! I wouldn't touch one of these without having someone (like yourself) with years and years of experience looking it over with a microscope!
Dietrich Posted July 28, 2005 Posted July 28, 2005 I wouldn't touch one of these without having someone (like yourself) with years and years of experience looking it over with a microscope!←If you ever need some very good pictures taken with a microscope for whatever badge, let me know. Always of service!Dietrich
Richard Gordon Posted August 1, 2005 Posted August 1, 2005 Another minty early unflawed piece with small 800←GordonI believe that one now resides in my collection?Rich
Gordon Williamson Posted August 1, 2005 Author Posted August 1, 2005 Rich,Indeed, thats the one which found its way over to N.I.Maybe you can confirm the point that it did not have the dent row referred to by Brian.
Richard Gordon Posted August 1, 2005 Posted August 1, 2005 Rich,Indeed, thats the one which found its way over to N.I.Maybe you can confirm the point that it did not have the dent row referred to by Brian.←Gordon/BrianThe 'Type B' row dent that you speak of does not appear in this RK. This is a 'Type A' and Deitrich can also confirm this as I took it to the SOS2005 and a long time was spent going over the details with a loope.Rich
Dietrich Posted August 1, 2005 Posted August 1, 2005 Hi Richard,if that's the cross I saw at the SOS it's a very fine one. I got pictures of the cross from you during the writing of the article and it is an A-Type. Dietrich
Dave B Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 GordonI believe that one now resides in my collection?Rich←That cross cost me ?65 last year!! Dave
Richard Gordon Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 Damn you , Dave! It cost me considerably more!
Dave B Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 Damn you , Dave! It cost me considerably more! ←Sorry Rich mate! It's a damn nice RK though and worth every penny! CheersDave
Dave B Posted August 2, 2005 Posted August 2, 2005 I've just this minute found the original photos I took of my RK haul before I bought them.This is "as found" in the shop,just think this little lot cost me ?195 only 12 months ago!! Excuse the quality of the pics,they were taken in a rush.CheersDave[attachmentid=7215]
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