Luftwaffe ASSMANN L/64 A marked ZINC PILOT

[mmiller]

Hi Guys,

I have been watching the recent 'rise' in L/64 marked Paras. And there are 'tons' available, which makes me question their authenticity.

Now, an L/64 marked P/O has surfaced at the SOS, and I just picked up an L/64 Pilot. I am posting images of the Pilot for opinions. Yea, the rivets are funcky, I know. But keep in mind, it was most likely 1945. Opinions are welcome.

Thanks,

Mark

[mmiller]

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[joetauchretter]

In my humble opinion I believe this to be a crude cast copy . Poor details and crude workmenship and I do not believe the " late war " story , this is just a cover for a bad copy .

[mmiller]

joetauchretter,

What makes the badge posted a "crude cast copy", to use your words. It may or may not be a repro, but a crude cast copy, no. The specs match exactly my Tombak Assmann Pilot. Maybe it is a crude cast copy too. I am looking for detailed specific comments, not shooting from the hip. If it is (crudely) cast, how did they get the dimensions correct? And where are the typical telltale signs of 'pockmarks' in the metal? Just answer those two questions, please.

Regards,

Mark

Here is what I measured tonight:

L/64 Pilot in Zink:

Weight - 25,00 grams

Height - 53,77 mm

Width - 42,22 mm

Wingtips - 66,33 mm

'A' marked Tombak Pilot:

Weight - insignificant

Height - 53,83 mm

Width - 42,43 mm

Wingtips - 66,72 mm

[J Temple-West]

Hi Mark.. Some thoughts before I hit the hay.

Typical pre-1945 reverse set-up for an ?Assmann? zincer. A nice flat back to both wreath and bird (definitely not a casting) and overall one of the cleanest I?ve seen. I take it that the pin is steel?

The rivets are a bit of an enigma as I would have expected flattened or domed rivet heads on this type of badge? they look to have been worked on at some stage in an attempt to tighten them, so I suppose we could say, repairs?

I?m trying to place it in the timeline; the maker mark says very late, the wreath indicates that it was produced pre- ?1?/?2? marked, one piece, wreath types (as used on Observer and Para badges) which were initially marked with the standard ?A?. Would this mean that his was an existing stock of PB parts assembled right up until the end, maker marked with both the earlier A then with the later A L/64?

The maker mark with the earlier badge is the confusing factor for me!

It has been a long day?The brain is closing down? Ize off...see you in the morning. ZZZzzzzZZzzz

[mmiller]

Jeff,

Thanks for the reply. Exactly the caliber of response I was hoping I might find. I'm off to bed now, too. 0400 rolls around pretty quickly. And they are even calling for snow in DC tomorrow! Maybe I should call in sick!

Mark

[Steve K.]

mark,

This is a new one for me!

I would like to know if the pin is steel or magnetic? Any rust on it?

Steve

[ERIC]

Hi Mark,

Not a "crude cast copy" whatsoever. The zinc is uniform throughout, and by your comparison measurements, basically the same dimensions. I agree with John 100% on the fact that it IS the typical late war setup for a zinc Assmann. The thing that bothers me is the hammering of the rivit area. To me, IMO, the eagle is a replacement. I would expect to see an eagle such as this one (marked "A" L/64) on one of the injected mold wreaths with the 1 or 2, not on a typical later war ('44) zinc wreath with the late war setup. Made with mixed parts as John states? Sure, a possibility of course, but the banged up area around the rivits, coupled with the latest known style of eagle marked with the private purchase L/64 stamping ('45) attached to a later war issued style wreath leads me to believe (my opinion of course!) that the two were married at one point in time from two separate badges. Still, an interesting piece!

ERIC

[mmiller]

Steve, The pin IS magnetic. What I see most is the breakdown of a (silver colored) finish, maybe plating on the pin, yeilding to a dark-color base-metal beneath. Iron? Affected areas range in size from a speck to a 3 to 4 mm streak.

Eric, Excellent points you make. But, since put together from two different badges, incredible how exact the zinc color of both pieces is.

More Questions..... if this is a repro, how in the heck, technically speaking, did they manage to get the size correct, if they cast from real components. It's hard to believe a faker would invest the time to make a badge so close to spec, then jamb the 'wrong' rivet in the middle of the reverse? Who friggin knows! And would he have then had to 'use up' two badges to make our L/64HYBRID. Sounds like the name of a car!

I gotta put some Hefeweizen Bier in the fridge. It is starting to snow and the girlfriend has the weekend off.

I'll check back...... when I'm not busy with other matters.........

Regards,

Mark

[Steve K.]

I really have no problem with this badge, other than the caveat described by JTW and Eric that these may have been seperate pieces married up (when? who knows?).

I would wait to see if more pop up in the next few years (already a PO has been found!?!). That's what I did for my IMME 'First' pattern aluminum PB....waited 5 years or so, watching for others like it but I've found none.

Cheers,

Steve

[spectre]

For those that didn't see this on WA, here are links to pics of the P/O I found at the SOS. Hope these links work since the pathetic 65k file size is worthless except for tinnies and I don't have all day to resize pictures.

Click on the "Original size" button under the pic for a better view.

http://www.esnips.com/doc/1a76d26e-e46d-46...c24d87659/aspo1

http://www.esnips.com/doc/a773526f-fb92-4b...92722a024/aspo2

http://www.esnips.com/doc/03ea5672-33ea-47...90aab3187/aspo4

Or just see it here, http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ad.php?t=209468

Alan

Edited April 2, 2007 by spectre