Rod Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 Ohhhhh me ....... I am so new to all of this!!! I have a Sax Ernestine House Order Second Class with swords!!! I really like this Order!!Now, I have a "larger" Ernestine House Order with sash in transist to me. See attachment with the second class shown for comparison.HUMMMM ... now I see an Ernestine Breast Star!!!! My question of the day: Does the breast star always accompany the sash order or is it an additional award???Many thanks,Rod
Guest Rick Research Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 The sash classes were always accompanied by a star. The lesser Commander neck grade came with (class 2a) and without (2b) a smaller star.
Rod Posted March 20, 2007 Author Posted March 20, 2007 (edited) I am still waiting to receive the sash and badge. It is to be mailed from the UK to me in the states in a day or two. When I receive it I will attempt ( ) to take pics with my scanner and show them. I really should wait until I do this before asking more question... sigh ... excuse me but I do tend to get overly excited!!! I am told the items came from the estate of a Generalleutnant Ludwig Muller. Can someone please shed some light on this officer expecially in terms on him being awarded the Ernestine Order? The sash badge does not have swords so I assume this was not a war time award.Thanks for putting up with me!!!!Rod Edited March 20, 2007 by Rod
Guest Rick Research Posted March 20, 2007 Posted March 20, 2007 Saxon charakterisiert General der Kavallerie (22.5.1912) Ludwig Moritz Camillo FREIHERR VON M?ller (7 November 1854-30 June 1942) received theGRAND CROSS of the Saxe Ernestine House Order on 11 August 1908 as Generalleutnant serving as Duty General-Adjutant ("diensttuender Generaladjutant")--that seems to be the only "General Ludwig M?ller" that I can find with an Ernestine sash grade.
Rod Posted March 20, 2007 Author Posted March 20, 2007 Thanks Rick, Hummmmm ...... very interesting.I am hoping that more detailed pics can reveal the vintage of my items and perhaps tie into the 1908 period.Rod
Rod Posted March 22, 2007 Author Posted March 22, 2007 (edited) I am still waiting for the mailman to deliver my badge and sash!!! I said I would wait till I can get some pics BUT, I am about to wet myself if I don't pose this question!!! The sash badge (on its way to me) is said to be silver and gold! The breast star (I am still considering) is silver with alternate gilt arms and a gilt center. Does this indicate anything? I have seen a sash order on emedals (already sold) that has both the sash badge and the breast badge as ALL GOLD!!What in the world am I getting into?????? Many thanks,Rod Edited March 22, 2007 by Rod
Guest Rick Research Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 I'm sure it varied from state to state depending on the budget and stockpiles on hand of returned Orders, but as a general rule of thumb, real solid gold was being phased out the closer it got to 1914. The trend was for more and more awards, and those babies were EXPENSIVE to hand out in ever increasing numbers. With the VERY broadest of generalized brushes, "all gold" is more likely to be 19th century, while silver-gilt is 20th century. Bear in mind that's a generalization across the board.Sashes and stars are far outside anything I ever had or ever will have experience with.
Rod Posted March 22, 2007 Author Posted March 22, 2007 Rick!!! you are a jewel!! thanks so much.I just might take a crack at the breast star too .... this darn ernestine order fascinates me!! After all .. if one has the sash and badge it only stands to reason they should have the breast badge!! Meine Gott where does it end?????? Rod
Guest Rick Research Posted March 22, 2007 Posted March 22, 2007 Well, just make sure you get the BIG star that goes with the sash and not the smaller one that goes with the Commander grade neck cross... or you'll REALLY be in deep!
Rod Posted March 22, 2007 Author Posted March 22, 2007 Well, just make sure you get the BIG star that goes with the sash and not the smaller one that goes with the Commander grade neck cross... or you'll REALLY be in deep!Rick!!!How does 80 X 85 MM strick you????OHHHH is there nothing simple anymore????? Rod
Deruelle Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 Hi, Breast star for Grand Cross without X : 83 x 83 mmBreast star for Grand Cross with X : 84,5 x 84 mmBreast star for commander class without X : 80 x 80 mmBreast star for commander class with X : 86,5 x 79,5 mmRegardsChristophe
Guest Rick Research Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 Grand Cross star has 8 points. Commander 1st Class star only had 4.
Rod Posted March 23, 2007 Author Posted March 23, 2007 (edited) Many thanks Rick and Deruelle !! Well here it is:front Edited March 23, 2007 by Rod
Stogieman Posted March 23, 2007 Posted March 23, 2007 Really small pix are almost impossible to judge accurately.... but it looks like a nice condition, authentic badge.
Rod Posted March 28, 2007 Author Posted March 28, 2007 Well here it is (grand cross??)!!It does have some wear, but much better than I expected.Very heavy and well made. Remember I am a novice, but the center looks like real gold to me.As represented, the sash is well worn, but all in all not bad.
Rod Posted March 28, 2007 Author Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) Reverse:Note the "shamrocks"??. The Ernestine house order (and my St. Henry knight) has the same. On the St. Henry I got the idea that the three leaves represented the Trinity, but I think I am all wet (again). Can someone comment ????I am really pleased with this item!! Rod Edited March 28, 2007 by Rod
Schießplatzmeister Posted March 28, 2007 Posted March 28, 2007 Hello Rod:Congratulations regarding your acquisitions!No shamrocks here! These are Rue leaves. You will find them on a few Saxon Orders.Best regards,"SPM"
Rod Posted March 28, 2007 Author Posted March 28, 2007 SPM...Thank you. I looked up Rue leaves on the net, but it did not tell me much. I wonder if this is related to german mythology?? hummmmm ... interesting.I should also add that I measured this baby and it is about 70 mm across the arms and about 95 mm from the bottom cross arms to the tip of the cross on the crown. The commander crosses I have seen advertised are 58mm by 89 mm. As I said above this item is heavy!!!!! (I would not want to get hit by it), but I do not have a scale to weigh it. It is unmarked, but the seller tells me it is silver (gilt?) with a gold center. Looks all gold to my poor, untrained eyes, but I think that is wishful thinking. Rod
Rod Posted March 29, 2007 Author Posted March 29, 2007 Well I am still playing with my cross!! I looked at it very closely with a 10X glass and I think (dangerous for me) that it is gilt silver with the monarch bust in the center in real gold!!Could someone please comment if this would appear to be of 1908 vintage as mentioned above as awarded to Lt. General Muller????Rod
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