Luftwaffe An exercise: How does one tell if it's a cast copy?

[J Temple-West]

...so let's help. This applies to all collectors of awards, medals, badges... those familiar with the technical process of die striking Vs die casting, etc.

Q. "could you please help me understand what to look for as far as knowing its been cast. thank you. i'm just trying to learn."

Point of reference... http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=16007&st=0

It's late here in the UK...so it's over to our US members, or as we like to call them, the night shift.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[coolldad]

West, thank you. i dont have the oppertunity to go to any of the big military shows, so i dont get to look at and handle badges to learn. i picked up this radio operators badge with an assman observers badge. on a trade last year. i need to learn what to look for as far as casting. i'll repost the pictures here so people can see it. thank you in advance for your help. DaveR

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another pic

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last pic

[J Temple-West]

Thanks for posting the pix, Dave...something I should have done!

I've put together a little background on the different processes used in the production of TR badges...hope I've got it right!

We'll get to your badge as soon as I get a minute. BTW, Is it possible to post some close-up's of the badge? Blowing up images isn't the best way of showing off the characteristics we need to point out. See what you can do. I can always replace the pix you've posted with new ones.

Ok, a little background on the techniques used by award, medal and badge makers in the TR era.

The three techniques used.

Die Stamping: A process where an item was stamped out of a thin sheet of metal by placing it between two die halves. This method was used to produce hollow backed badges such as the 'Luftwaffe Helpers Badge' shown below.

[J Temple-West]

Die Striking: Most commonly used in the production of Luftwaffe qualification badges, war badges of the Kriegsmarine and Heer.

This method required a heavier sheet of metal, usually heated, to be placed between two die halves and the item was then produced under high pressure. Shown below is an early Observer?s Badge by ?F.W Assmann? and is typical of the badges produced by the die striking process.

[J Temple-West]

Die casting: Mainly used in the production of late-war badges, this process used molten metal injected into a die, under high pressure, to form the item.

Shown below is a late-war Para badge by ?F.W Assmann? and is typical of the badges produced by the die casting process.

All three techniques produced an extremely high quality product, having well defined features, few die flaws (although they do exist) and an obvious attention to detail.

Badges found with blurred details, obvious air pockets, wrinkles or a line around the outer edge of the individual parts, from casting, usually indicate a reproduction, especially when a badge is purporting to be an early nickel silver, tombak/buntmetal example which has been ?die struck.?

[J Temple-West]

I'll post the side-by-side comparison shot of the original 'Deumer' RO/AG badge and your example for others to have a look at and will be back as soon as..

[J Temple-West]

Obverse shot.

Dave, we've lost too much definition in the enlargement, but the signs of casting are quite clear. Casting tends to soften everything, making sharp lines rounded, loss of detail to feathers, etc.

[J Temple-West]

Look at the lightning bolts on the left...all the lines, which are sharp on the original, are lost on the casting.

You now have some examples of originals, compare them to the one you have...I'm sure that you'll start to see it.

[Avitas]

Very helpful thread, I learned the hard way about cast copies. To see many examples of cast badges have a look at the majority of my Kriegsmarine and early Heer badges, some have pretty good details (like the anti-partisan badge) but there were still casting lines around the edges, which is never a good sign. After acquiring a few originals over the last couple years I can now distinguish between them much better, after seeing the quality of originals (My first 10 badges were all cast copies from the same crooked dealer at the Kelowna flea market, buyer beware!). I look forward to more examples and details to help beginner and novice collectors become more aware of all these cast copies!

Cheers,

Pat

[Richard Gordon]

J T-W has started a good subject here and it is one that will be useful to many. Hopefully more details can be added as it progessses.

Dave, would it be at all possible for you provide better pictures of your badge?It would be beneficial to see the detail on it and to highlight areas that show the casting effect.

Rich

[coolldad]

my camera is not the best, or it could be me not knowing how to use it right. but i'll give it a good try and see how they come out. this information is a great help. i should post my other badges to be looked at too. i'll get some pic's of this RO soon. thank you again.

[JimZ]

One of the major reasons why one cannot in fact pick up a cast copy from an original is low quality photos. When looking for an opinion it is imperative that photos be focused and zoomed in as otherwise, it is entirely impossible to tell whether or not the item gas bad definition from the casting process or merely from the image capturing process.

And as I realised, sometimes its not that the camera is bad - its just that you do not know how to use its many functions as had happenned with me A close up focus function setting worked wonders for me. Lighting is the next big challenge!

Jim

[coolldad]

hello gents, sorry for the delay getting back to this. i have tried my best to take as good a pictures as i can, but they still dont come close to the quality of the other members. so i tried different lightings etc. and even under a magnafing glass.

the eagle it self has some kind of coating on it. i can see nice detail under it, but not so much in the pic's. the lightning bolts look much better when looking at it in hand. i'm dissapointed in it being a fake, because in hand it has a nice quality to it. the wreath edges are not overly rounded, and even a little sharp. i would not expect this on a cast. but the fakers are doing a good job on some pieces. this badge belonged to a guy i know for a long time before i got it, so i know its not a recent fake. but any thing i can do to educate my self and others with this badge, as far as what to look for, i'm all for it. so if other pictures will help, i'll take them. i am hesitent to post the observers badge that came with it lol.

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