1914 "Mons" Star

[Riley1965]

T-22885

Driver R. Cooper

A.S.C.

Edited March 31, 2007 by Riley1965

[Steiner]

Wonderful piece Doc. I don't have any 1914's yet.

Thanks for showing it.

Steiner

[leigh kitchen]

My favourite medal, I've only got a few, but they really are my favourite.

[Ed_Haynes]

You should get his MIC from the National Archives (online) and see if he qualified for the clasp.

While we might have wished for a more uncommon surname than "Cooper" a quick look finds no mention of him on the often-cranky CWGC site, so, presumably, he survived the war.

[Riley1965]

You should get his MIC from the National Archives (online) and see if he qualified for the clasp.

While we might have wished for a more uncommon surname than "Cooper" a quick look finds no mention of him on the often-cranky CWGC site, so, presumably, he survived the war.

Thanks Ed!! I'll try the archives.

Doc

[Ed_Haynes]

My latest, to a small unit, the Indore Imperial Service Transport.

Edited March 31, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Riley1965]

VERY NICE!!!

Doc

[Riley1965]

Thanks to Chris at the British Forum here's some more information. I've paid and downloaded his M.I.C.

Enjoy

Medal card of Cooper, Robert

Corps Regiment No Rank

2nd Railway Supply Detachment Army Service Corps T/22885 Driver

2nd Railway Supply Detachment Army Service Corps T/22885 Acting Staff Sargeant

Young?s Army Service Corps 1902-1918 lists two mentions of Railway Supply detachments. The first, on pg 38 notes that Nos. 1-8 Railway Supply Detachments were added to the ASC order of battle in 1912. The second, on pg 51, notes that 1-8 Railway Supply Detachments were in the initial ASC deployment to France in August 1914.

Doc

[Ed_Haynes]

OK, still lots of unanswered questions - date of entry into theatre? any sign of a clasp qualification?

Not sure what advice you got, Doc, but there's way to go yet!

[Riley1965]

OK, still lots of unanswered questions - date of entry into theatre? any sign of a clasp qualification?

Not sure what advice you got, Doc, but there's way to go yet!

Ed,

I'm still going over the M.I.C. I will post soon.

Doc

[Pylon1357]

Great medal Doc. I just put together a display this evening with my Mons trio and bar, along with the vets 'Old Contempables' Badge and his ASC cap badge. I think it turned out pretty good. I will post it later when I take photos.

[leigh kitchen]

Any update? The 14 really is my favourite medal, let's see what info's on the MIC.........

[Kev in Deva]

Great Medals gentlemen

I, must confess they sadly lacking in my own collection, and which I must remedy very soon.

Looking at some of the prices the 1914 & 1914-15 Star go for I will pobably look for an issue outside of the regular U.K. Regiments.

Any advice greatly appriciated with regards current prices.

Kevin in Deva

[Riley1965]

Any update? The 14 really is my favourite medal, let's see what info's on the MIC.........

Here is Robert Cooper's MIC page 1

Doc

[Riley1965]

Page 2

[Riley1965]

Page 3

[Riley1965]

Page 4

[Riley1965]

Page 5

[Riley1965]

Finally Page 6

Doc

[leigh kitchen]

Ok, the first one is your mans, the others are not related to him, they are men with the same name whose MIC appear on the same page as your mans - sometimes there is an accidenatl duplication of some kind, but these just look like the 5 men whose cards follow your mans in alphabetical order, coincidentally they are all in the ASC.

Any idea what that "ghost" word is towards the bottom right of your mans card - is it "Embarkation" or similar?

[Riley1965]

Thanks for the explanation!! This is my first MIC. As for the "Ghost" word, I don't know

Doc

[Ed_Haynes]

OK, Doc (and sorry never to have answered off-line). Thanks for these, as they may provide a tutorial and practice in reading MICs. I must admit to being a novice (as all the Indian ones were pitched out, they are on scant interest to me).

However . . .

You have a flock of R. Coopers here, but only one your boy. There were, after all, 99 "R. Cooper"s killed in the Great War (per CWGC website -- http://www.cwgc.org/ .) The key will be his service number.

And what you show as "Page 1" is his (post #14). The other "pages" are other people, though some of them very interesting ones.

T-22885 Driver Robert Cooper entered a theatre of war as an Army Service Corps transport driver on 14 August 1914. While the theatre is not specified, it was, of course, France. He was in at the beginning as part of the 1st Railway Supply Depot. However, as there is no annotation of a clasp (as there is for post 16, for example), he must never have driven close enough to the action to be considered "under fire". It wasn't easy, even with fast-moving fronts, for ASC types to get the clasp. And not all 1914 Star recipients earned the clasp, though may felt they deserved it and later added it.

He was alao awarded a British War Medal and a Victory Medal (which are somewhere out there awaiting reunification!) and finally made it to Acting Substantative Sergeant by war's end.

Checking the medal rolls (they give the roll and page number) might tell you more. The 1914 Star roll might be especially interesting, as he is on page 1 of the ASC/17 roll.

Just as a footnote, these medals were sent out to him on 27 August 1920, just over six years since he went into the war.

Edited April 14, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Riley1965]

Thanks Ed!! How do I access the 1914 Medal roll?

Doc

[leigh kitchen]

Another reason for not having the bar to the 14 Star could be simply that he did'nt bother to apply for it after the war.

I have a lovely DCM group of DCM, 14 Star, BWM & VM, GSM clasp IRAQ & IGSM clasp WAZIRISTAN 1921-24 to a member of 4th Bn Royal Fusiliers a regular battalion despite the number).

He was a L/Cpl in 1914, Sgt by May 1916 when he won his DCM at St. Eloi, & still a sergeant on his later medals (4 RF was disbanded in about 1922 while it was in India I think).

His battalion was the first unit to be awarded the VC (two for the same action, Lt Dease (posthumous) & Pte Godfrey, wounded & made POW), it was in plenty of action during the opening months of WWI - but he has'nt got the clasp recorded on his MIC, either he was away from his unit between the relevant times, although in country, or he simply did'nt bother to wait until about 1922 to get the application forms, fill them in, & take them to the orderly room or the post office, if he left the army at the time his battalion was disbanded rather than being transferred to one of the other battalions.

[Ed_Haynes]

How do I access the 1914 Medal roll?

It is in the National Archives (nee Public Record Office) at Kew, just out of London. Not sure when I'll be doing research in London next, or I'd offer. With some records on-line (and many collectors thinking everything is or should be!) many of the reliable researchers I have used have moved on to other things (including the grave), as everyone now seems to think research should be on-line, easy, or free.

There is, by the way, an OUTSIDE chance that he may have service records at the PRO (sorry, I slipped and used the old name) in the WO 364 series (while they were HEAVILY damaged in WWII German bombing). The fact that the genealogist mob exists has resulted, I think, in some extensive information on these being placed online (they matter, we don't, and where the two communities overlap, we benefit). The PRO website -- http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/default.htm -- will lead you to this, though all but browsing costs (as you have discovered).

Checking their site: By the end of 2008, they plan to have "A" and "B" online (hope they don't pitch the originals after that!). They will, however, be privitizing these through ancestry.co.uk, so the news may not be so bleedin' good. See

http://content.ancestry.co.uk/iexec/?htx=L...id=0%3a7935%3a0

to play, but you gotta pay them MONEY.

More fun to do research in Kew anyway, in the real records, though there's no nice pub nearby.