WW1 Victory Medals General Discussion

[RobW]

Hello Bill,

Hi Gents,

Last week I was in Cambridge and took the opportunity to visit the Fitzwilliam Museum to view the Lester Watson Collection WW1 Victory medals, which I posted about in post #93 of this thread. I rang a week beforehand to make an appointment, and the Coins and Medal Department were very accommodating. I was able to handle the medals and examine them under a magnifying glass.

These are the conclusions I came to:

Great Britain - Official Type 2 - it is un-named but may have had naming erased - the photo on the Fitzwilliam web site seems to show the planchet oddly out of round in the lower part. This isn't apparent 'in hand' but the lower edge of the medal seems slightly rounded - the rim isn't as sharp as at the top.

To the eye of a rim that does appear to be slightly rounded is a very good indication of a name erased piece. A very close inspection on the sides of the medal planchet would inevitably show where any such erasing has started and stopped. Such a shame when such erasing occurs becaues it removes the opportunity to know the recipient through subsequest research.

These are the conclusions I came to:

Cuba - This medal has the BRONZE stamp on the edge, plus a very clear triangle with AC inside. The reverse matches the one posted on the Cuba thread post # 6, rather than the one in Laslo. I have called it Official Type.

Noting that the records for this collection indicate the pieces were collected by 1928, combined with the initial establishing decree for the Cuban vic dated in June 1922 (amended in August 1924), it is at least suggestive that the piece was produced during that era and is correct to type. I am sure that others will have differing opinions.

Regards,

Rob

[lambert]

Some countries with the right to own an example of the Victory Medal, did not, why?

Lambert

[Bilco]

The Snyder Treasures web site has a couple of interesting items for sale http://snyderstreasures.com/pages/uswwivictorymedals.htm

The top two items, in particular, are interesting - the set of 14 Interallied Victory Medals is described as mint.

Bill

[lambert]

Hi Bill e All

I saw the pictures of the medals, rapid analysis ...

Some very interesting models Unofficial USA and Japan (made ​​in France), the Ribbons are mostly of British manufacturing (Replacement). There is to certify that the medal Sian is true, not with these photos.
Medal of Brazil seems to be OK, but there are no guarantees for now.

Best Regards.

Lambert

[RobW]

Hello Bill,

Yes; that is a nice succinct collection of type examples.

A closer inspection of each individual example, in the close-up pics, provides some more clarity to the varieties. Looking at these close-ups I identified the following:

* Belgian - Official strike.
* Brazil - An official strike. Not being able to see the rim means you can't see if it is a type 1 or a type 2.
* Cuba - very difficult to tell due to the darkness of the close-up picture.
* Czechoslovak - Reissue type 1.
* France - Official type.

* Great Britain - Official type 2.
* Greece - Unofficial type 2.
* Italy - Official type, difficult to tell if type 1, 2, or 3
* Japan - definitely a reproduction type.
* Portugal - Reproduction type 2.
* Romania - Official type.
* Siam - Reproduction type 1.
* South Africa - difficult to see at the bottom of the display but certainly looks like an official strike.
* United States - Reproduction type.

The numbering variety types are taken from Alex Laslo's second edition.

All in all a good collection of type examples. What is interesting is the large number of reproduction examples with the Czechoslovak Reissue type 1 being particularly difficult to find. It would be of note to see the background behind this collection.

I am sure if there is a very keen buyer, not wanting to sit and wait patiently to accrue such a type collection over time, this would be a very attractive opportunity.

Regards,

Rob

Edited October 12, 2013 by RobW

[RobW]

To all,

The vendor indicated that the collection was put together by a US collector in the 1970's. This at least identifies the era of collection and gives us a snapshot as to those varieties available at the time.

Regards,

Rob

Edited October 12, 2013 by RobW

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

Two copies of Laslo's book (I think 1st edition) on eBay item # 370917502719 and # 221308517952

Bill

Edited November 3, 2013 by Bilco

[RobW]

Hi Gents,

Two copies of Laslo's book (I think 1st edition) on eBay item # 370917502719 and # 221308517952

Bill

Hello Bill,

Correct on both accounts. The first edition was published in 1986 with a total of 765 numbered copies. The second edition was published in 1992 in an unknown quantity and was un-numbered.

One of the major differences between edition one and two was the inclusion of the Battle Clasp matrix on page 94. Notwithstanding that the updated 1992 edition has all the latest information (at the time), including the type classifications.

Having the reference (2nd edition) is advantageous especially as there are so many references to it here on this forum. It also allows for collectors to update their copy as newer information comes to hand or emends older information.

Regards,

Rob

[jovanmara]

The Armistice Day in the First World War is celebrated in Serbia as a national holiday, a day when we pay tribute to our ancestors and lay wreaths at memorials in memory of all the innocent victims of the war from 1914 to 1918. Badge which people carry on 11 November is a combination of the legendary Memorial medal for the withdrawal of the Serbian army through Albania and a unique flower that grows on Mount Kaimakchalan. Natalia's Ramonda is a flower that has multiple symbolism, which tells the story of the Serbian people and temptations through which it had passed. It was named after Queen Natalia Obrenović and in botany it's also known as the Phoenix flower. Even completely dry, with very little water, it can revive and continue its life. It was chosen to commemorate the resurrection of Serbia, which rose from the ashes of the World War I and continued to live.

Edited November 12, 2013 by jovanmara

[jovanmara]

I am sorry I can not put the photo of the Natalia's Ramonda but You can see it on my facebook Jovan Mara.

[lambert]

Hello everyone.

Looking at my medals, I noticed that there are some points of green rust.
what better way to remove it?

Lambert

[davidck]

Greetings all.

I currently live in Sarajevo, and something about being in this city has sparked a real interest for me in WWI. As part of my interest, I've taken up collecting the inter-allied victory medal. I have at least one from each country, except Siam and Brazil, and am aiming to eventually (probably many decades from now) have one of each variety, official and unofficial. I have a couple questions for people more experienced in this hobby than I.

Firstly, how many varieties are there that are not listed in Laslo's book? I have the book and have run across several that do not seem to be described there. The one that comes to mind is the official French medal with a triangle mark. As this one seems fairly easy to find, why is it not described in the book? What other countries have versions that he missed?

Secondly, I've noticed there are some varieties that I virtually never see. How difficult is it to find, for instance, the non-official Belgians? I've seen the uniface Belgian plenty of times, but have never come across the types 1 or 2 unofficials. I also gather that the unofficial Italians are virtually impossible to find, particularly the ones with the different "Victory" varieties. Does anyone have a copy of these? How much do they typically sell for?

[Bilco]

Hi David,

On those Italian unofficials, there is some discussion on the Italian Miles medal forum that these were proposed designs but most were never made, and the one that was sold a while back was a proof copy of one proposal - it's not cast in bronze. See

The non-offical Belgium medals were made in Czechoslovakia, and they sometimes appear from sellers there.

Bill

[davidck]

I got my Czech version at an antique store in Prague about a year ago. I remember there being some Belgian copies in there and thinking "I've already got a Belgian one." Now that I know a bit more about the different versions, I wish I'd taken a closer look, because I'm unlikely to be in Prague again any time soon.

[Bilco]

Hi David,

Was the Prague shop Antikyariat Klenek on Narodni? I was there in September, and made a similar bad decision!

Bill

[davidck]

I honestly have no idea. I had been unsuccessfully looking for a Czech version throughout our whole vacation, and my wife just noticed this one down the street and convinced me to try one more. Lo and behold, they had a Czech one and several Belgians. It was a small, very disorganized store, so it's probably not one you would remember by name.

[RobW]

Hello David,

Greetings all.

I currently live in Sarajevo, and something about being in this city has sparked a real interest for me in WWI. As part of my interest, I've taken up collecting the inter-allied victory medal. I have at least one from each country, except Siam and Brazil, and am aiming to eventually (probably many decades from now) have one of each variety, official and unofficial.

Welcome to the forum. I am sure that you will find much information of assistance amongst the threads here.

Good luck on your impending search to locate an example of each official and unofficial variety. I am sure that it will be an interesting journey.

Regards,
Rob

Edited December 14, 2013 by RobW

[RobW]

Hello David,

Firstly, how many varieties are there that are not listed in Laslo's book? I have the book and have run across several that do not seem to be described there. The one that comes to mind is the official French medal with a triangle mark. As this one seems fairly easy to find, why is it not described in the book? What other countries have versions that he missed?

There have been a number of similar discussion points raised about newer varieties than that listed in the Laslo volumes. Noting that Alex Laslo's 2nd edition was published in 1992 it stands to reason that there are going to be additional varieties, not identified at the time of publication, surfacing. Given the passage of 21 years since that book was released there are a number of newer varieties and sub-varieties that have been discussed, and in some cases, illustrated in the various threads on this forum topic. I would suggest that you review each country sub-thread and you may find the answers you are looking for.

Secondly, I've noticed there are some varieties that I virtually never see. How difficult is it to find, for instance, the non-official Belgians? I've seen the uniface Belgian plenty of times, but have never come across the types 1 or 2 unofficials. I also gather that the unofficial Italians are virtually impossible to find, particularly the ones with the different "Victory" varieties. Does anyone have a copy of these? How much do they typically sell for?

As has already been posted the unofficial Belgian types are becoming much harder to find, in good condition whereas the unofficial Italian models are well-nigh impossible to find.

The divergence between scarcity and value has often been discussed amongst all collectors. To para-phrase an earlier post on the 'WW1 Victory Medals General Discussion' sub-thread, which has relevance regarding what collectors will pay:

"There is two areas here that need to be understood; market values and collector values. I think a close look at sales on the various online auction houses, ebay sites, and other online medal dealers should give you a general guide as to the prices you could expect for each of the varieties. There is then what a specific collector will pay for the same item; and this may not always be consistent with the market value."

Regards,
Rob

Edited December 14, 2013 by RobW

[davidck]

Thanks for the advice. I wasn't aware that there was a 2nd edition of Laslo's book, and it would appear that I have the 1st. Looks like I have something to tell my wife that can be my next year's anniversary present.

For some reason, finding the Belgian unofficials has been a recent obsession of mine...the Belgian version is my favorite "Victory" design and I've been looking all over for it on websites, but don't know that I can justify a trip to Belgium or the Czech Republic specifically to find them. It's good to know that the Italian unofficials are as rare as they appear to be...I haven't even seen them in the "sold" section of any website I've looked at.

[Bilco]

Hi Gents,

For some reason the links I put in post #2 didn't appear. They should be http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=it&tl=en&u=http://miles.forumcommunity.net/%3Ft%3D9288433%26st%3D15&usg=ALkJrhgAlakjMhxxQY8MMS2pGBj4bp2QGw http://miles.forumcommunity.net/?t=44916321

Bill

Edited December 15, 2013 by Bilco

[bilylev]

Hello David,

Czechoslovak governement has approved Victory medal in 1920. Czech own desing medals ( Laslo Official Type 2) were produced in 1922. Before this, governement has approved a wearing of Belgian model medals (Laslo Unofficial Type 1 and Type 2) , which were produced by several private companies. Two of producers, Alexander Leisek and Edward Riemer, marked their medals. These are quite common, if you wish I can obtain them for you. And of course, if you come to Prague it will be a pleasure to meet you personaly , to show you some medal shops, invite you for a lunch or a beer .

Jan

[lambert]

Welcome David

I think you will have a very interesting read. Each topic in this category comes from each of the WWI Victory Medals, and related variations.
To better research subjects are treated in refente each medal category.

Feel free to ask.

Regards

Lambert

[davidck]

Hello David,

Czechoslovak governement has approved Victory medal in 1920. Czech own desing medals ( Laslo Official Type 2) were produced in 1922. Before this, governement has approved a wearing of Belgian model medals (Laslo Unofficial Type 1 and Type 2) , which were produced by several private companies. Two of producers, Alexander Leisek and Edward Riemer, marked their medals. These are quite common, if you wish I can obtain them for you. And of course, if you come to Prague it will be a pleasure to meet you personaly , to show you some medal shops, invite you for a lunch or a beer .

Jan

We will only be in Europe for about another 9 months, and have pretty much all of our travel planned out, so I doubt I'll be in Prague again in the near future. If you do acquire those medals, however, and have a website or an eBay store, I'd certainly be interested.

[IrishGunner]

Posted 16 December 2013 - 16:51

Hello David,

I dont have any web, I am not a dealer, I am a collector only. I am ready to help any other collector without any profit. If you are intersted in two Czech/Belgian medals, I am ready to obtain them for you. In this case send me a personal message.

Jan

[lambert]

Merry Christmas and prosperous new year!

Lambert