Spanish crosses cases

[Jacques]

The spanish crosses, whatever their class, were presented inside a case. Period pictures of the award ceremonies which occured in Hamburg on May the 31th of 1939, in D?beritz on June the 3rd for the Army, and on June the 4th for the Luftwaffe and Navy, show clearly the cases. These cases were Red, blue , or green.

Later in 1941, with the LDO institution, the cases were ornated with the trigram "LDO" stamped onto the lid, or inside the lid. These crosses were private purchase or replacement. Green cases variants exist with the decoration effigy onto the lid.

It is commonly accepted that the spanish coss in gold was awarded in a red case, the silver class in a blue case, and the bronze class in a green case. nevertheless, it seems that green cases could have been used for the three classes, and the blue cases for the bronze class too. So, I found nothing concerning the cases in the RGB related to the Spanish crosses.

Concerning the nex of kin spanish cross, it was awarded in a rectangular black box, with the effigy of the medal onto the lid.

I have no information concerning the Spanish cross in gold with diamonds. Harald Geissler shown in an old german magazin a green box which seemed to have a thin gold piping around the lid. If some of you guy own an original case for this award, he is welcome to share pictures ...

[Jacques]

The red case is in pebbled simili red leather. The lid is piped with a thin gold piping.

Case measurements: 82 mm Long x 78 mm width x 27mm high.

Rectangular push button.

Inside lid is covered with white satin, bottom base with purple velvet.

The first pic show a "900" gold cross.

The second one is a "CEJ 900" (it was to sell on Ebay last year but disappeared after few hours; I don't know the lucky buyer !)

[Marcus H]

The cases with the Ldo on the lid are I susopect earlier cases to those with the Ldo on the inside of the lid in the more Latin fraktur with the rectangular border.

This also coincides 98% of the time with the catches, and outer covering and other material used when compared in a biger picture with other Ldo boxes.

In regards to the Ldo motif, I think I may have enough 'uniformed' evidence to establish this earlier v later theory. I think we acceopt this notion and trait, but I'd like to confirm it as such.

Please note however the 'criteria' above is not set in stone as such, as there is a transition and cross over in parts and suplus materials etc etc (pre and post incipient Ldo boxes), there is however a pattern that can be clearly (Getting there) seen. Consider also, that surplus boxes where used too, with newer or older stock awards.

The best examples for this are Luft cases (Non Ldo confined of course in this respect), to follow a chronlogical course of a box, very generaly speaking here !

A broad general uniformed statement really, but I think it does hold some water.

Kr

Marcus

[Jacques]

This green cardboard case is of a cheap manufacture and LDO marked on the lid. The LDO letters are silver.

The case is square with no push button, but the so-called "klappetui".

Case measurements: 78 mm Long x 79 mm width x 21mm high.

Inside lid is of a red paper, bottom base with purple red velvet.

Marcus, I agree some of your points, but this case looks more to me as a later manufacture than an early one. Meanwhile your theory is may be true for the more elaborated cases with hinge and push-button.

I had to admit that I have nothing read about this and it is pure supposition on my side. May be other collectors can help us, comparing with other decorations such as EK1. You're welcome !

[Marcus H]

Jacques this case you show below is from around 1941 to a time in 1943. although 'cheap & nasty' looking this wouldn't be a late war case with that designation.

This is still early Ldo and mid war in terms of the duration of the war, but not late. The same can be said in the series of the KVK, EK boxes like these, with this style of logo, even the outer covering suggests not late war...and there difference's.

Later boxes would be devoid of a logo or have the logo on the inside of the lid in this style. They may have been used with later badges and awards, certainly.

This can be observed in say the wound badge boxes. The mistake not to make here is it being devoid of catch and the 'hinge' which portrays it as being a later box.

I'll have to expalin better when we meet up again next year

I'll try and put together a series of pic's to show you what I mean.

1944 was a bad year in terms of boxes, shall we say, to keep it short and simple whats deemed as late war in many instances is very incorrect on the forums

Kr

Marcus

Edited August 19, 2005 by Marcus H

[Stogieman]

Hi Jacques, as always, a magnificent selection and some superb crosses peeking out! Nice!

I would agree with Marcus' opinion on the slipcase. Midwar experiment perhaps, but I think even given the lesser quality, they were still superior materials, weight of the cardboard and the inner fitted tray.... much better than what I would deem a "late-war" example.

[Jacques]

Thanks mates for your input, these cardboard cases were mid -late war provided in my mind. I'll change it !

I can't post other pics this week, but I'll do it next friday to illustrate the early and late war cases.

jacques

[Luftwaffe Rules]

Very nice sir!! Simply awsome!! Do each of those cases have a cross in them? ROCK ON Jon

[Jacques]

I suppose these cases have a cross inside , at least mine do have

[François SAEZ]

My understanding for what it is worth

Awards for the 1939 ceremony = 3 colors as descibed by mister Jacques

After this where the confusion is for everybody (including myself), all cases are GREEN - I have seen US brings back of SC, all classes in green boxes. I also think and believe several variations (color,stamps ..........) exist depending on makers.

In your logic, you must enter the attribution number parameter - How many SC in gold do you know, then how many red case do you know?

* Sir, nice cases you show here

[Jacques]

I do know some gold crosses, but saw very few cases !

Here is the common blue case

[Marcus H]

Francois,

On the group picture of the boxes Jacques shows there's a blue box with an 'earlier' style Ldo logo on the ouside of the box, this style was the foreruner to the latter boxed faktur Latin Ldo in the oblate oval within a rectangle.

We can roughly estimate this design was incorporated and used within the period of 1941 & 1943 and thats even broadly speaking I think (I suspect them as a bit earlier than '43, so post 1939 they aren't all green as such), i.e manufacture respects at least. A transistion period occured to the box format of Ldo logo there after. The reasons for this I think I may be along the lines of, but can't present it as factual evidence as such at this moment in time.

As for alot if not most boxes being green at some time, date oreintated by logo's and box make up and comparing it generaly to other examples of the same style box there's a vague picture to be built up and it does appear to date at some time the green boxes dominate in the boxes for what ever reason. This all green manufacture is post sometime after 1941 I think, not 1939 as a benchmark date in regard to retail Ldo boxes.

Of course the reason for the blue Ldo box could be for another reason, but I'd suspect it's intention was for the silver cross perhaps.

Just my thoughts to add to the confusion.

Kr

Marcus

[Jacques]

Here is the blue case with the LDO logo onto the lid.

(I'm looking for this variant ). The cross is a Meybauer stamped with the coat of arms and "900" silver content (credit DN).

[Jacques]

May be the crosses came all in blue boxes , that look pretty good too !

(the presentation was realized for the picture only )

[Jacques]

Here is a case for the Honor cross for relatives (Ehrenkreuz f?r Hinterbliebene).

[François SAEZ]

Francois,

On the group picture of the boxes Jacques shows there's a blue box with an 'earlier' style Ldo logo on the ouside of the box, this style was the foreruner to the latter boxed faktur Latin Ldo in the oblate oval within a rectangle.

We can roughly estimate this design was incorporated and used within the period of 1941 & 1943 and thats even broadly speaking I think (I suspect them as a bit earlier than '43, so post 1939 they aren't all green as such), i.e manufacture respects at least. A transistion period occured to the box format of Ldo logo there after. The reasons for this I think I may be along the lines of, but can't present it as factual evidence as such at this moment in time.

As for alot if not most boxes being green at some time, date oreintated by logo's and box make up and comparing it generaly to other examples of the same style box there's a vague picture to be built up and it does appear to date at some time the green boxes dominate in the boxes for what ever reason. This all green manufacture is post sometime after 1941 I think, not 1939 as a benchmark date in regard to retail Ldo boxes.

Of course the reason for the blue Ldo box could be for another reason, but I'd suspect it's intention was for the silver cross perhaps.

Just my thoughts to add to the confusion.

Kr

Marcus

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Well Marcus, I see no opposition to your theory with mine

[Jacques]

Another green box, more luxurious as the previous one. This one has the silver LDO logo on the top lid. It close with a push-button system.

[Jacques]

Another green case with a siver cross stamped on the lid. Inside is dark blue velvet and silk. This is not mine. I only saw one at a show few years ago, had not enough money to buy two crosses, so I had chosen the other one

Markus, what's your though about the date ? Post LDO for me !

[Jacques]

Inside.

The case I saw had a SC in bronze without swords.

[Marcus H]

To be honest I don't really know Jacques....as a guess only of course mid or perhaps earlierish ???? It dosen't rescrible to a latter box as such as my thoughts go.

Just because this is different though, the time frame could be parallel to several of your wartime version's.