Russian medals to German forces in China 1901

[eitze]

Next:

[eitze]

And the last - that`s it.

greetings

eitze

[Guest Rick Research]

It is rarely possible--with ANY German decoration-- to tell "what" it was awarded for, specifically. Citations come up in records almost never. We only know what WAS, not WHY. That is what makes the listings shown above by eitze so since they DO relate decoration to reason for being decorated!

You will note, as I already said, that from the above-- EVERY officer and man who had a Russian decoration FOR the Boxer Rebellion had a GERMAN "war" award.

Russian award/no German decoration = Russian award NOT for China.

[GREAKLY]

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your input (and, especially, to EITZE for posting all those scans). Could you please clarify a few more things for me:

1. What was the award criteria for Prussian Crown Order medal in German Navy at the turn of the century? I mean, what (generally) it would have been given for? Could it be awarded to soldiers (seesoldaten) or it was only reserved for NCOs/unteroffizieren and up? Could those from other Federal lands get it or it was only reserved to Prussians?

2. What was German order of battle in China in 1900-01? I mean, beside III Seebatailon were there any other units participating in the events? If so, what were those and what was the total number of German armed forces personnel involved in the conflict?

Thank you in advance

[GREAKLY]

Gentlemen,

Unfortunately, there was no word from experts in the last week. I tried to do some research on my own and found the following:

German troops in China in 1900-1901 (Copyright: Axis History Forum, http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=58473 )

Kiaochow Garrison

In China at start of hostilities:

III Seebataillon(1126 men)

One Marine Horse artillery Battery(111 men)

Kommando Detachment(800 men,some mounted,and raised from civilian volunteers)

Sailors(Matrosen) from the East Asian squadron.

Ostasiatischen ExpeditionKorps

Despatched from Germany 1900.

1. Ostasiatische Infanteriebrigade

1 Ostasiatische Regiment

2 Ostasiatische Regiment

2. Ostasiatische Infanteriebrigade

3 Ostasiatische Regiment

4 Ostasiatische Regiment

Each Infantrie Regiment consisted of only two battalions,of 812 men each.

Ostasiatisches Reiterregiment

600 men.

Ostasiatisches Feld - Artillerieregiment

Three gun and one howitzer batteries.

Ostasiatisches Pionierbataillon

Korps Troops-sanitation,train,munitions,support

5. Ostasiatische Regiment - ? (unclear)

Is my understanding correct that only the following units belonged to the Navy:

- III Seebataillon(1126 men)

- One Marine Horse artillery Battery(111 men)

- Sailors(Matrosen) from the East Asian squadron

and the rest were Army (Infantry, Artillery, cavalry, etc.)

On the same forum I have found the following:

...There was also "Marine Expeditionary Force", which arrived on the theatre before the "East Asian Expeditionary Force" on August 15th near Taku:

- 1st Seebataillon from Kiel

- 2nd Seebataillon from Wilhelmshaven

- a mobile Marine field battery

- a Marine engineer detachment

- medical service

Does that mean that there were about 4000-5000 German Naval soldiers in China in August 1900, before first "Army" units arrived?

I also found a great site about Boxer Rebellion, but, unfortunately, it's all in German

http://www.boxeraufstand.com/

Does anybody have a history of I and II Seebataillonen? I still hope to find an awardee who received Russian silver medal but did not get the MEZ. Did the Crown order medal go only to NCOs/Unteroffizieren and up or to enlisted as well?

[Bernd D]

You are right. The navy and the Seebataillon?s were the first in China. The III. Seebataillon was station in Tsingtau. The I. and II. Seetataillon were mobilized and send to China in July and arrived middle of August at Taku. The reason fort his rapid deployment is simple. The navy was under the command of the Emperor. They also were the first in GSWA a few years later.

The six East Asian Regiments and other troops were recruited out of all German armies. Put together from all German states. For example the Emperor asked the king of Bavaria and Saxony if they could support him with some troops in China. They asked their soldiers, hey guys anybody interested in a voyage to China, all-inclusive, playing a little bit of war? Well not really like this, but all army troops, which were send to China, were volunteers. All together, army and navy, by 30.000 German troops were stationed in China between 1900-1902.

Among the 4.000 to 5.000 navy soldiers you will find nobody who received your medal for the service in China.

Be happy that it still exists. It might be unique. Only a very small amount of Russian decoration survived on medal bars the WW I.

Did you have a look at this? http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=19108

Bernd

[Igor Ostapenko]

I have only this picture .

Russian "For Bravery" medal 2nd class

[Igor Ostapenko]

My small group with "For Zeal" medal, but not for China

[Igor Ostapenko]

Hi,

I checked the Tientsin lists again and have to say, that I made a mistake in my first post.

There were 1 golden, 2 silver and 1 unknown Russian medal for Uffz. Flohr !

Let`s start.

Hi EITZE ,

Can I ask from you big scans of these pages ?!

Send please to my e-mail geshem@bk.ru

May be you have information about

17 Military Merit Crosses to Russian NCOs during the Russian-Turkish War 1877-78 (1878-79 )

and

4 Military Merit Crosses to Russians in China (1902 )

http://www.medalnet.net/Difference.htm

[HeikoGrusdat]

the bar in post 32 looks of course amazing BUT a bit too weird for me............... I can`t believe that this bar is real and old.......

[Igor Ostapenko]

the bar in post 32 looks of course amazing BUT a bit too weird for me............... I can`t believe that this bar is real and old.......

I VERY WANT THIS BAR !!! IT'S GENUINE MEDALS BAR !!!

[HeikoGrusdat]

OK..........what do we have on it.......

- 1870 in service during the franco-prussian war

- 1901 service IN china (with battle clasps)

- 1904-06 service IN africa (with battle clasps)

- 1914-18 service during ww1

- 1937/38 still alive to recieve the bulgarian war rememberance medal....and still no frontfighters cross of ww1

If this bar is genuine it must have been worn by a 90 years old man at the end of the 30s that got in ww1 NO award from any other german state BUT has 6 awards from foreign states..... not to talk about the different sizes of the battle clasps or the wrong order line up with the austrian in third position......

OF COURSE - everything is possible.... and we have seen a lot..... but this one is a bit too weird for me - nothing less and nothing more.

Edited June 19, 2007 by HeikoGrusdat

[saschaw]

OF COURSE - everything is possible.... and we have seen a lot..... but this one is a bit too weird for me - nothing less and nothing more.

Actually, I like the bar and have a good feeling - there's to much strange and wrong for a fake ...

What please is the medal on 10th position? The last one is from Persia, isn't it? A great bar, if it is fine ...

[HeikoGrusdat]

Hi Sascha, last one should be the medal of the sun and lion order of persia on the ribbon for foreigners...

N?10 as I can see it is the ww1 medal of Tirol.....

[saschaw]

N?10 as I can see it is the ww1 medal of Tirol.....

Oh yes, that's it. I knew I know the ribbon.

The bar is post 1938, and so the Austrian is in third position, hmm?!

[eitze]

Hi EITZE ,

Can I ask from you big scans of these pages ?!

Send please to my e-mail geshem@bk.ru

May be you have information about

17 Military Merit Crosses to Russian NCOs during the Russian-Turkish War 1877-78 (1878-79 )

and

4 Military Merit Crosses to Russians in China (1902 )

http://www.medalnet.net/Difference.htm

Hello Igor,

I am sorry but I`ve already delete all the scans from my PC. Beside this, the scans where in the same size as shown here. It is only a small book.

Military Merit Crosses: it might be of interest for you that there is a book about all recipients of the GMVK. It is called:

Das preussische Goldene Milit?r-Verdienstkreuz

Quellen und Darstellung zur Geschichte der Orden und Ehrenzeichen, Band 2

Herausgeber MILITARIA-Archiv Klaus D. Patzwall, 1986

Perhaps you`ll also find the names of the mentioned Russian soldiers.

And I am sorry, but I don`t have a copy of this.

greetings

eitze

[Igor Ostapenko]

Hello eitze !

Thank you !

I'm try to find !

Regards,

Igor

[GREAKLY]

EITZE,

Do you know if there is a book (similar to the GMVK one you mentioned) that lists all recipients of the medal of the Prussian Crown order (I believe there were 5038 of them in total)?

[eitze]

Hi Greakly,

I am sorry, but I have nether heard about a book of all recipients of this medal.

But perhaps there is something old on the antique market, but I don`t think so.

The Crown Order Medal was such a minor decoration, that there was no need for such a source.

It will be the best to ask one of the Prussian experts here around.

greetings

eitze

[chechaco1]

19.06.2007 в 09:43 Игорь Остапенко сказал:

 

 

 

Hi EITZE ,

Могу я попросить у вас большие сканы этих страниц ?!

Присылайте, пожалуйста, на мой e-mail geshem@bk.ru

 

Может быть, у вас есть информация о

 

17 Крестов за боевые заслуги российским сержантам во время русско-турецкой войны 1877-78 (1878-79 )

и

4 Креста за боевые заслуги русским в Китае (1902 )

 

http://www.medalnet.net/Difference.htm

https://sammlung.ru/?page_id=19005