Heer ID on a Administrative General

[DonC]

Hi All -

I am looking over a Heeresverwaltung Waffenrock, Generalleutnant rank, with a smeared/erased last name on the name tag. Given that there were relatively few Admin officers to reach such a high pay grade, is there any hope to ID the owner? I have posted the name tag here. As always, any help much appreciated.

Don

[Guest Rick Research]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Have you tried XEROXING it? But I don't think even that will help-- that ink has been scrubbed right THROUGH the label.

[DonC]

Hi Rick -

I don't own it - I was interested in it if I could ID the guy. I have handled it in person and the tunic itself is legit, IMHO. I was wondering if there was any way to figure out at least the first name and extrapolate from there.

Don

[Naxos]

Hi,

from what I can read it says: Herrn: Gebert ...........Nr: ......... den...August 1937

I think Gebert is his last name.

Hardy

Edited June 12, 2007 by Naxos

[Naxos]

I have Rittmeister Gebert in the 1928 Rangliste - can anyone check in the 1937/38 Ranglisten for Gebert?

Hardy

Edited June 12, 2007 by Naxos

[Guest Rick Research]

PROBLEM is there WERE 4 Geberts in administrative jobs

andnone of them ever made general:

1) was a Feldstudienrat (educational "Major") born in 1875 who reached his glass ceiling in 1928 and was frozen at that rank in Allenstein in 1939

2) an Oberstabszahlmeister (Paymaster Major) 1.7.38 at Berlin II in 1939, born 21.1.83

3) Kurt, an Oberzahlmeisiter (Pay 1st lt) born 9.12.1912, in that rank 1.2.36 at "V.Z,H>" (no clue)

4) Ludwig, born 1.10.06 who was a supernumerary (ausserplanm?ssiger) Zahlmaster (Pay 2nd Lt) with IIIrd Bn/Inf Rgt 21, that rank 19.12.38.

So if that IS the last name, with a rank following... some Smarty Boots has scrubbed off the damning evidenvcce that all the insignia and buttons have been twiddled with.

And if that ISN'T his last name, but a scribble we can't (I can't) read as SOMETHING ELSE... then it's no help. I have been trying and trying to get something like "GenInt" out pof it as a RANK abbreviation, but can't.

'

[Naxos]

PROBLEM is there WERE 4 Geberts in administrative jobs

andnone of them ever made general:

1) was a Feldstudienrat (educational "Major") born in 1875 who reached his glass ceiling in 1928 and was frozen at that rank in Allenstein in 1939

2) an Oberstabszahlmeister (Paymaster Major) 1.7.38 at Berlin II in 1939, born 21.1.83

3) Kurt, an Oberzahlmeisiter (Pay 1st lt) born 9.12.1912, in that rank 1.2.36 at "V.Z,H>" (no clue)

4) Ludwig, born 1.10.06 who was a supernumerary (ausserplanm?ssiger) Zahlmaster (Pay 2nd Lt) with IIIrd Bn/Inf Rgt 21, that rank 19.12.38.

So if that IS the last name, with a rank following... some Smarty Boots has scrubbed off the damning evidenvcce that all the insignia and buttons have been twiddled with.

And if that ISN'T his last name, but a scribble we can't (I can't) read as SOMETHING ELSE... then it's no help. I have been trying and trying to get something like "GenInt" out pof it as a RANK abbreviation, but can't.

'

Could it be: Herrn Gebert Stabszahlmeister

Edited June 13, 2007 by Naxos

[Paul R]

Lets see the rest of it!!! I love Admin tunics!

[Naxos]

Could Herr Gebert in August of 1937, when the Taylor Shop Mohr & Speyer made the Uniform for him, have been a Stabszahlmeister or ObStabszahlmeister, then during the war advanced to the rank of Generalleutnant id Heeresverwaltung?

Hence, he or someone else removed the Stabszahlmeister or ObStabszahlmeister on the label since it no longer matched the actual rank of the tunic.

Hardy

[DonC]

Could Herr Gebert in August of 1937, when the Taylor Shop Mohr & Speyer made the Uniform for him, have been a Stabszahlmeister or ObStabszahlmeister, then during the war advanced to the rank of Generalleutnant id Heeresverwaltung?

Hence, he or someone else removed the Stabszahlmeister or ObStabszahlmeister on the label since it no longer matched the actual rank of the tunic.

Hardy

Hi All -

Thanks very much for all of your efforts - I am always paranoid about removed name labels (even though I know it was often done by the family post-war) for the reasons Rick already outlined. If the tunic has been messed with, and of course it is always a possibility as Admin Generals wore the standard green-piped Waffenrocks of their "branch", somebody went through a considerable amount of trouble as it is definitely not your run of the mill slapped-together job. I'll post ome pics of the entire tunic tomorrow.

Thanks again,

Don

[Guest Rick Research]

Nobody that name was an administrative general. I have Keilig's "one paragraph" listings of ALL Army generals, and the May 1939 army Rank List for all administrative officials with officer rank.

[DonC]

Here is the 'Rock in question - ignore the medal bar - it came with the tunic but isn't "right", IMO.

Don

Edited June 13, 2007 by DonC

[DonC]

X

[DonC]

Z

[Paul R]

Don,

That is an amazing tunic! Congrats! These admin tunics are far rarer than the standard!

[Ulsterman]

wow-shame about that medal bar. Looks like an "London style" mount.

Edited June 13, 2007 by Ulsterman

[Paul R]

What is a London Style mount?

[Paul R]

What is a London Style mount?

[DonC]

Hi Paul -

It's not mine - I was intertested in it if I could prove provenance, but alas....

Don

[Ulsterman]

What is a London Style mount?

It's a dig about german medals being mounted by certain firms in London-or at least sold therefrom. They also tend to follow British precedence and sometime British mounting styles.

Alas, they are becoming more sophisticated, thanks to the internet.

Edited June 14, 2007 by Ulsterman

[DonC]

I actually asked Rick's opinion of the bar on the forum about a year ago because I noticed the stand-alone 18 year service medal, which is a no-no on TR bars. Her confirmed that it was Scheisse...

Don