EK 1914 Rarest Maker?

[Motorhead]

It's to hot,I'm a little bored(not much postings here)-tell me,what is the rarest 1914 EK1 maker ? I'm not talking about K.M.S.T-the really hard to find ones! What must I hunt next?

Micha

[Alex K]

Hi Motorhead, How about this one. S & L 1914-18, but 39-45 manufacture, guaranteed pre 1945. It has all the hallmarks of an S & L.

regards

Alex K

[Alex K]

2

[Alex K]

or this one, I would really like to know the maker of this one, any ideas?

regards

Alex

[ekhunter]

It's to hot,I'm a little bored(not much postings here)-tell me,what is the rarest 1914 EK1 maker ? I'm not talking about K.M.S.T-the really hard to find ones! What must I hunt next?

Micha

Well, I don't know about the rarest particular maker, but I do know some of the rarest variations of makers that I would love to have. At the top of my list is the Hansen screwback with the 'small disk'. It's marked DRGM Angem. These were made before they had their DRGM protection, probably early 1914. I've only seen one of these before, and it belongs to Dan Murphy. I would rate this even higher than the Godet with fangs, and believe me when I say this because I covet one of those Godets' very badly. Knowing your ability to find crosses, you'll probably have one next week in your collection, if you don't already have one, but the early Hansen would be at the top of my list. Probably third, would be the AWS with full size backing plate and doulbe post. I know where only one resides, and he'll probably read this soon. He also has a Godet with fangs. Some people are just Greedy! After that, I would have to say the screwbacks with the extra large plates(larger than the cross). I would still buy every DRGM K.M.S.T., and pillow-back(especially the marked ones-AWS) cross that I could get my hands on too, within reason of course. But of course, with these high end items that are so extremely rare, try to define reason, I wish I could. Just knowing that these are in collections out there is what keeps us going, maybe, just maybe, one day!!!!!!!!!!!

[gregM]

I am not sure who the maker was but the Eks with the black enamel croes ( mistakenly

called Onyx cores) have to be almost impossible to find. I have only seen pictures but I

have been told that they are as nice as the enamel on the Maiden's cross.

[ekhunter]

They say chum in the water always brings the sharks to the top! Please Greg, would you share pictures of your double posted pillowback and Godet with fangs! These are the ones I was talking about. Very rare, and very nice.

[Motorhead]

'14 S&L EKs made in '39 are not that rare-I've seen a few of them for sale! I would agree with Russel about the "special" Hansen-never seen one for sale ever! KMST pinbacks are popping up sometimes,the other attachment systems are difficult to find but it's possible(exept the one Gordon has shown in his book..).Godet with fangs are expensive,but not impossible to find.The double post screwback "AWS"is a different thing-very hard to find(I'm still looking for one) but.......all of these crosses are with some special kind of attachments-what about the makers? How many "JWS" pinbacks have you seen? I know 2 of them in collections...or the legendary "Fr.W"? Dough See has shown one at the WAF....and I know where the other one will be next week! These makers wouldn't reach top prices at Ebay because they are unspectacular pinbacks,,in a german forum an "R.W" was shown..........Once I've shown an unmagnetic one piece screwback stamped with "Fincke,Berlin"-for shure a retailer like Sedlatzek,but I have found his old adress in Berlin in an article(BDOS magazine,I think).So,who knows more makers they are worth to be collected?

Micha

[Mike K]

Hi Micha,

Interesting topic! I think rarity becomes sort of personal as it comes down to what you don't have in your own collection tempered by personal desirability. Ones at the top of my own rarity list would be;

- enamel core - I remember Detlev sold a cased EK1/EK2 set years ago

- rotating disc KMST (I have seen 2 or 3 of these, so fortunately it's not a unique variant)

- Wagner twin-fang - never seen one for sale

- Werner twin-fang - never seen one for sale

Others you mention are rare and/or unusual, like the "JWS" "RW" and "Fincke" examples. Some are very uncommon to rare, like NON-"Hansen hoard" Hansen screwbacks (how about a 938 example?), J H WERNERs, KMSTs, examples marked with Austrian proofmarks and the twin-prong pillow-backs.

Ones that I personally don't consider rare (only because I've found them) include "Fr + W" (guess where the WAF one is?), "W + 800", "CD 800" on the PIN, an EARLY Sedlatzek (not the 30s/TR font), a butt ugly unmarked MFH cored example and examples with "800" stamped on the CATCH.

So, each to their own and each to their own desires!

Regards

Mike

[ekhunter]

It's to hot,I'm a little bored(not much postings here)-tell me,what is the rarest 1914 EK1 maker ? I'm not talking about K.M.S.T-the really hard to find ones! What must I hunt next?

Micha

You want rare makers. No conversation about rare makers would be complete without a mention of the most elusive maker of all. (Rothe & Neffe) Find one of those, and you will truly be the master, and the grail shall be yours.

Edited June 21, 2007 by ekhunter

[Motorhead]

Well,if you read Enzos posting about austrian makers it's coming down that the fine EKs with the blued sheetmetal core are Rothe&Neffe-in this case I've got a few one.....but hey,I've got enough holes in my collectin to keep my busy the next decade!

Micha

[ekhunter]

Yea, I read the posting by Enzo. I think I need a little something more than the memory and word of a woman and what she remembers from 55-60 years before. It's amazing to me how these sat in the shop of Rothe & Neffe from, say 1918 to the 1970's, and she was absolutely sure they were made there by the firm. As much as I want to believe, it's hard to. Reminds me of the little old lady from a small shop in Germany who took me in the back and eventually sold me a 935 post war RK as an original issue piece that she had since the war.. Sorry but I'm just very skeptical to stories............

[Motorhead]

I'm sceptical,too.Enzo said also how the hallmarks have to look-A rhombus with a circle in it? that's something I've seen on an L/59 pinback with an additional "S".And at last-the iron cross wasn't a common award for austrians,so there are serious doubts by a large number of german EK collectors that R&N have made eKs at all! Maybe one day......

Micha

[ekhunter]

Did Rothe and Neffe make other military medals? If so, how did they mark these? Number, Symbol, Logo? If anyone has an undisputably marked Rothe and Neffe item, I would love to see it. I sincerely have my doubts as to whether R&N ever made Iron Crosses. Until then, the search continues! I was going to mention J.H. Werner marked crosses are very hard to find, but I see Micha already has one of these too. Someone had one of these for sale a few weeks ago over on WAF. A real beauty of a cross. Does anyone have a Wagner or Werner with fangs that they would like to show?

Edited June 21, 2007 by ekhunter

[Motorhead]

I've seen a Wagner with fangs,but never a Werner-I know there are Werners with screwback,but I've seen only a converted one(screwback to pinback) If someone has got one of these beauties,please share the pics with us!

Micha

[gregM]

Interesting topic !!

I personaly would like to add a Hanson (even a hoard piece would be fine) to my

collection BUT the one that I really would like just because of it's eye appeal is one of

the transitional 1914s with a white frosted frame.

Edited June 23, 2007 by gregM

[gregM]

They say chum in the water always brings the sharks to the top! Please Greg,

"Greedy " "Shark" I have just been lucky enough to be in the right place

at the right time.

What's up with all of the discussion of the twin post pillowback? I know that I

have not seen many posted but to be honest I never actually thought it was

"rare" Is that right? The cruciform backplate and twin posts always intrigued

me. So much so that I display this one back side up.

Edited June 22, 2007 by gregM

[ekhunter]

"Greedy " "Shark" I have just been lucky enough to be in the right place

at the right time.

What's up with all of the discussion of the twin post pillowback? I know that I

have not seen many posted but to be honest I never actually thought it was

"rare" Is that right? The cruciform backplate and twin posts always intrigued

me. So much so that I display this one back side up.

How many twin post pillowbacks have you seen? Not counting yours of course. I saw one several years ago, can't remember where, maybe ebay, estand, or a dealer (D.N., Weitze, Barry?) anyway, if I recall correctly, I think this particular cross may be the same one, maybe. If you got it from one of these sources, then it probably is. If not, if you got it at a show or an individual, well then, that means I know of two of them that exist!

[Motorhead]

One of them was sold by Baldes,worn but in good condition...unfortunately the backplate was missing! It was sold in a second!

And not to me.....

Micha

[gregM]

WOW, I learn something new every day. I bought mine from a private party at a show.

for Russel------

Edited June 23, 2007 by gregM

[ekhunter]

Ahhhhhhh! You taunt me again! Now as I'm fixing to go to bed and about to lay my head on my pillow, I think of pillowbacks, and instead of visions of sugar plums in my head, it will be Godets! A long night of tossing and turning trying to figure out how and if I will ever land a pair like these. Thanks a lot Greg. Seriously though, I never get tired of seeing crosses like these.

Edited June 23, 2007 by ekhunter