France Verdun Commemorative Medal

[Tim B]

Does anybody know if there is a printed reference book/guide for medals like this and if so, where I might find one?

Thanks,

Tim

Front:

[Tim B]

This is quite large and stamped bronze on the edge. I really like it and have seen a few other medals similar to this theme.

Reverse:

[bigjarofwasps]

Very nice Tim, thanks for sharing it with us.

I`ve not seen one like its kind before, leave it with me I`ll see if I can find anything out about it for you.

[Tim B]

Thank you!

Any assistance I can get in finding information on these type medals would be greatly appreciated. There appears to be several different medals commemorating WWI, the people involved and battles like Verdun, Marne, etc. Here is all I know about this specific medal, but usually there is a reference of some type that would show this and others; similar to a coin or stamp book by Krause.

Large 67 mm bronze medal from the Monnaie de Paris. It has the cornucopia and Bronze on the edge.

France, "Aux H?ros de Verdun 1916" (to the heroes of Verdun), bronze medal struck 1917, by Charles Pillet

Obv: The French Republic places her hand on the shoulder of the French Army, the latter with sword drawn as they defy the imperial German eagle before the town of Verdun, arms of the Republic and Verdun nearby, ON NE PASSE PAS (they shall not pass) and date below

Rev: A LA GLOIRE DES H?ROS DE VERDUN (To the glory of the Verdun heroes) and year within laurel wreath, medallions of Generals P?tain, Nivelle and Curi?res de Castelnau above, the decorations Croix de la L?gion d'Honneur and Croix de Guerre below

Thanks again!

Tim

Edited August 11, 2007 by Tim B

[Chris Boonzaier]

medallions of Generals P?tain, Nivelle and Curi?res de Castelnau above, the decorations Croix de la L?gion d'Honneur and Croix de Guerre below

Thanks again!

Tim

With Petain in there you can be sure it is between 1918 and 1939 and not something made for vets in the 50s or 70s.

[Tim B]

Chris,

Yes, I have had this for awhile now and had a chance for a similar one on the Marne but didn't grab it. Really a great design and the detail is incredible, though I just can't convey it here due to limited PIC sizes.

I do see some of these referenced once in awhile, but I never recognized the ref they call out and assumed it was a European guide.

Tim

Great details!!

[Tim B]

Here's a couple more that I don't own, but have seen for sale over time. All are in bronze and quite large.

Tim

This one is the Marne medal. Front has the 3 heros, reverse has the battle scene. Very impressive IMO.

Edited August 12, 2007 by Tim B

[Tim B]

One more for now, but I have more examples of different scenes.

Whether these are period pieces verse later commemoratives for veterans I don't know, and is one of the reasons I am seeking a good reference for these medals.

Tim

Edited August 12, 2007 by Tim B

[Veteran]

Good morning

Both the Verdun and Marne medals were struck by the Paris Mint (Administration des Monnaies et Medailles) and appear in vol. 3 of their "Catalogue general illustre des Editions de la Monnaie de Paris".

This means they were (and possibly still are) available for sale. They were usually bought as a souvenir or as a gift to veterans who had fought in those battles. They were also available to collectors who enjoyed the beauty of medals or their symbolic significance.

In some instances, only a given number of medals were struck, once and for all. Other medals are occasionnally restruck in order to keep the stock alive. Basically the Mint is a government agency, and as such serves the needs of the public.

The Mint has a website "Monnaie de Paris".

Hoping this answers some of the questions. With my very best regards

Veteran

[Tim B]

Good Morning!

I'll check out the site; many thanks!

Tim

[Tim B]

Not much information on the site and no reference to past medals actually produced.

Appears the "Catalogue general illustre des Editions de la Monnaie de Paris" is a multi-volume reference of at least three and possibly as many as six books, somewhat rare or hard to find and not cheap. All text in French as well.

I'll keep looking, but thanks again for the info.

Tim

[bigjarofwasps]

Tim,

My sources are drawing a blank aswell, but we`ll keep trying!

Gordon.

[Veteran]

Hello Tim,

I checked with the Paris Mint and they said this medal had not been in stock "for a very long time". No restricking is contemplated either.

These large medals occasionnally appear on the french versrion of eBay in the "Medailles et jeton". The number of true collectors seems to be rather small and I find that they sell at very reasonnable prices, often less than their cost as new from the Mint. Il is just a matter of patience.

Professionnal numismatists don't often have them, precicely because of the small number of collectors.

I have a copy of the Catalogue I mentioned in a previous message. I will be happy to send information about french medals you may want to know more about. Enjoy a pleasant week-end.

Paul

[coastie]

Do the medallions from the Paris mint carry a mint mark?

[Veteran]

Quite definitely. The official hallmark is the cornocupia with additionnal marking for the metal or metal content of the alloy.

The first hallmarks for the French Mint (which is a Government Agency) were started in the 1830s and never have been discountinued since. They have changed a number of times during the XIXth century, but not since the 1870s. You might like to take a look at the series of messages following Darrel's message on the French Medal for Long Services (or "medal of labour") in the French section of this forum. One of the ways it is used appears on the reverse of a gold medal.

Table medals also receive the Mint hallmark with the indication of the metal : BRONZE, ARGENT, OR. Privately struck table medals also have hallmarks, usually in a triangle, always ont the side of the medal.

I hope this answers your question. Enjoy your collecting !

All the best

Veteran

[Tim B]

Hey,

Thanks again for the additional info!

Also, here's the edge mint mark..bronze with cornocopia.

Tim

[Veteran]

Hello Tim,

It seems you have it all. Congratulations for this fine picture of the hallmarks. How do you produce them?

All the best

Veteran

[Tim B]

Hello Veteran!

Well, I am actually using an old digital camera with only 3.2 megapixels, but it does have a macro zoom that does quite well. I can produce much better PICS, but as a probationary member am limited to 65kb right now. Hopefully that will improve in time.

Macro is the key to taking close-ups like this though. More megapixels will give you better details and allow you to enlarge more without losing the sharpness. I hope to upgrade one day to a nice Nikon with at least 10 megapixels and a really good macro on it.

Thanks for the compliments and help here!

Cheers!

Tim

[redcross]

I've also been sort of watching for a book

covering these, and have yet to find one

part of the problem is the number of countries

such a book would need to cover

I tend to gravitate to ones having

either a Red Cross or a stretcher

and there seem more than I could ever hope to catalog

[redcross]

Here is one of my favorities

[Tim B]

Very nice! First time I have seen this particular striking.

Tim

[Bronzemonger]

Hello everyone. I happened to find this 5 year old thread while Googling for a medal I am selling.

First off, my intent is NOT to spam your site. I do however have information regarding WWI French medals and Medallions. Perhaps most importantly, it is in English. I don't know if Tim B is still active here but the information contained on several of my web sites could save other members time if there is interest in WWI German, French, Belgium, etc., etc, art medal material. yes, the first site is a sales site but still a good reference for these obscure medals of WWI. The second site is strictly German and is a non-commercial museum site.

You can find information at: http://www.karlgoetzmedals.com and/or http://www.karlgoetz.com

I am interested in investgating your fine forum more in the next several days and I hope I can become a contributing member once I can zero in on the forums that most interest me, or, that I can add information to.

Thanks for the opportunity to join the forum! Bronzemonger (Scott)

[Mervyn Mitton]

Scott - welcome to GMIC and we will look forward to seeing more posts from you. We don't encourage

links to sales sites - however, on a comparitively rare subject like this all info. is helpful. Many thanks. Mervyn

[Bronzemonger]

Thanks Mervyn...as you mentioned, there is little information available regarding War art medals and medallions. I didn't even know such things existed until 8 years ago and I have a degree in art!

I think the subject is paramount to understanding what the public opinion was, with the artist as a vehicle, during the times of war, as opposed to the more heroric representation by the military complex. Hopefully this material will help fill in the blanks when it comes to understanding the entire socio-political activites of countries involved in war.

More soon.... S