ARAB MEDALS -- Egypt

[Ed_Haynes]

Thank you for your very informative response.

Diameter of my medal is 37 mm, not 31 mm like you said in your above post.

Let me fetch my Nuut al-Waagib al-?Askarii / Medal of Military Duty and reconfirm the size.

Also I am not able to determine which is a correct ribbon for this medal and when was this awarded.

Ribbon is easy: Blue with two red stripes (see, for example, http://www.omsa.org/photopost/showphoto.ph...ze=big&cat= or http://www.medals.lava.pl/eg/eg2.htm ). Actually 36 mm, medium blue moire with a thin red stripe toward each edge: 5 mm blue, 3 mm red, 20 mm blue, 3 mm red, 5 mm blue. I think the OMSA ribbon bank has some.

Date is more difficult, though the hallmark (if present) can always help.

What does mean the maker mark ? on the medal?

This is the silver content mark.

The dates 1909-1379 on the medal ?

Maybe there is someone who can answer on my questions?

Thanks,

pluribus

The dates are 1953 [CE]-1379 [AH], the date of creation (9 July 1953, actually more of a reformulation from the pre-revolutionary Medal for Devotion to Duty [founded 1920]). The era of the medal can be determined by the legend, and I think this is the United Arab Republic variety, 1959-71 (actually altered in 1973?).

I hope you find this to be of use and to be a spur to your own research.

[oamotme]

Hi,

The is the "Decoration of Military Duty" for the "United Arab Republic" - the date is 1959 not 1909. This presumably became obsolete when the UAR ceased in the early 1960's when Syria withdrew from the union. When I get home later I'll check my collection to confrim the ribbon colours.

This general series of awards can be differentiated between Egyptian and UAR versions by the dates, the variations in eagles/hawks and isncriptions - and possibly even suspension bars

Regards,

Owain

[pluribus]

Ed_Haynes,

Owain,

Thank you.

pluribus

[lilo]

Hello All,

Studing the medal entitlement of the following Victoria Cross holder :- Major General Frank Crowther ROBERTS (1891-1982), Worcestershire Regiment - I discovered that he was entitled to the 'Gold medal' of the Egyptian Order of Mohammed Ali.

Searching on Google I found the following web site:

http://www.medals.org.uk/egypt/egypt-kingdom/egypt-kingdom001.htm

In this website there is a medal that is identified as pertaining to the Order of Mohammed Ali. For comodity of examination, I re-attached it below (the medal, front/back, with the green/white ribbon).

Continuing my search I found another 'Mohammed Ali' medal (see the 2nd attachment : front/back; that gilt with red/green/red ribbon) and though this last is mentioned as 'commemorative', some confusion arised between these 2 medals.

In other words, what is between the 2 medals I posted that pertaining to the Order of Mohammed Ali' ?

Thanks in advance

Lilo

[lilo]

and last.............

the back of the 2nd medal

Edited September 14, 2007 by lilo

[Ed_Haynes]

Short version: The silver one (whitre and green ribbon, scalloped edge) is connected to the order, the bronze gilt one (red and green ribbon) is a commemorative medal for the reign of Muhammad Ali.

Does this make sense?

[lilo]

So, must I assume that Major General Frank Crowther ROBERTS, VC did received that with the white and green ribbon ?

Am I correct ?

[Ed_Haynes]

That would be my guess, but why the medal and not the order? Not way to be sure without checking the records, and as all foreign awards required approval, that record is usually there. Also, I think is medals are in the NAM. With the VC, it would be easy enough to check their location.

[lilo]

That would be my guess, but why the medal and not the order? Not way to be sure without checking the records, and as all foreign awards required approval, that record is usually there. Also, I think is medals are in the NAM. With the VC, it would be easy enough to check their location.

I don't know the reason for what Major General Frank Crowther ROBERTS, VC received the medal and Not the Order of 'Mohamed Al?' but this is what is written in the dedicated web page of the Worcestershire Regiment Museum, see :

http://www.worcestershireregiment.com/wr.p...n=inc/o_roberts

His medals are not in the NAM but are held by the:

Worcestershire Regiment Museum (Collection)

Foregate Street

Worcester

Worcestershire

Edited September 16, 2007 by lilo

[oamotme]

Gentlelmen,

I seem to recall that the medal of the Order of Mohammed Ali, instituted April 1915 by Sultan Hussein Kamel, - in Gold and Silver - was presented only for highest bravery to naval and military personnel - I need to check ther statutes. It predates the institution of the Military Star of Sultan/King Fouad (1919) and thus the institution of the latter may have made the Mohammed Ali Medal obsolete. Could the award of this medal have been an acknowledgement of the VC action? Both the gold and silver medals are on display at the Abdine Palace in Cairo. I do not recall ever seeing these medals for sale - at least during the last 20 years or so. I have the good fortune to have some ribbon - all I need now is a medal.....wishful thinking I am sure.

With regard to the Mohammed Ali Commemorative Medal - two versions exist - with and without a larurel wreath suspension.

Regards,

Owain

[lilo]

Gentlelmen,

I seem to recall that the medal of the Order of Mohammed Ali, instituted April 1915 by Sultan Hussein Kamel, - in Gold and Silver - was presented only for highest bravery to naval and military personnel - I need to check ther statutes. It predates the institution of the Military Star of Sultan/King Fouad (1919) and thus the institution of the latter may have made the Mohammed Ali Medal obsolete. Could the award of this medal have been an acknowledgement of the VC action? Both the gold and silver medals are on display at the Abdine Palace in Cairo. I do not recall ever seeing these medals for sale - at least during the last 20 years or so. I have the good fortune to have some ribbon - all I need now is a medal.....wishful thinking I am sure.

With regard to the Mohammed Ali Commemorative Medal - two versions exist - with and without a larurel wreath suspension.

Regards,

Owain

Hello Owain,

Thank you for your very interesting posting.

I don't know if the award of his Mohamed Al? medal was related to his VC action but His link with Egypt / Sudan is clear from the short bio that I took from the King's College London Liddell Hart Centre for Military Archives; see http://www.kcl.ac.uk/lhcma/locreg/ROBERTS2.shtml

ROBERTS, Frank Crowther (1891-1982), Major General : Joined Worcestershire Regt 1911; World War I in France and Belgium 1914-1918; Staff Capt, France 1916; Bde Maj, France 1916-1917; Officer Commanding 1 Bn, Worcestershire Regt 1917-1918; attached to Egyptian Army, Sudan 1919-1920; Staff College, Camberley 1921; General Staff Officer Grade 3, Egypt 1923-1924; Bde Maj, Rhine Army 1925-1926; General Staff Officer Grade 2, South China 1926-1928; transferred to Royal Warwickshire Regt 1927; Inspector, General Staff Branch, Iraq Army 1931-1932; Inspector, British Military Mission, Iraq Army 1932-1934; General Staff Officer Grade 2, Northern Ireland District 1935-1936; Col commanding 1 Bn, Royal Warwickshire Regt 1936; Local Brigadier, Southern Command, India 1937; Commander, Poona Independent Bde 1938-1939; Commander, 48 (South Midland) Div, Territorial Army 1939; retired 1939.

As information I remenber to have seen a silver medal of the Order in question, on sale on ebay some year ago.

Before to close my posting I would like to ask you, Owain, two things :

1) Do you confirm that is the medal with the 'green/white ribbon' (that that I identified in my preceding post with the name 'Silver Medal') the exact medal associated with the Order of Mohamed Al? (excluding so that identified as 'Commemorative' with the red/green/red ribbon)?

2) Do you confirm that the ribbon you have for this medal is the same and exact one from which is suspended the medal I posted with the 'green/white ribbon' ?

Regards

Lilo

[oamotme]

Lilo,

Yes the medal with the green and white ribbon is the medal of the Order of Mohammed Ali - same ribbon for both classes. I note that the VC was won in early 1918 and thus I would suggest that the award of the Egyptian medal reates to one of his periods in Egypt. As Ed states the award of this medal should be noted in his records.

With regard to the Mohammed Ali Commemorative medal this was authorised just before King Farouk was ousted by Neguib and from what I recall from conversations with Mr. Bichay, who manufactured this medal, whilst it was not discarded, only a few were manufactured. I cannot at the moment recall why there are two versions - with and without laurel wreath suspension - possibly only one type was approved. Even after the monarchy was abolished the medal was retained - there are pictures of Nasser whilst President wearing this medal in his group of awards.

Regards,

Owain

[lilo]

Hi Owain,

Thanks very much for the replay.

Regards

Lilo

P.S. do you have a photo of Nasser with His medals or one representing the MOD awarded to Nasser ?

[Guest IMHF]

What is the Highest Order that Egypt has?

Thank you

God Bless

SSG Luna, Lorenzo

[Ed_Haynes]

As there has been some discussion of this one, some background:

Nishan Muhammad Ali / Order of Muhammad Ali

Before the revolution, this was the highest military and civilian award, and it was only rarely conferred. The two highest classes were only conferred on royal personages and heads of state. The order became obsolete with the revolution and was abolished in 1954. The Chain of the Order of Muhammad Ali was quite rarely awarded, usually to senior members of the royal family or to foreign royalty. The medals came in gold and silver variwties and were awarded to military and naval personnel to reward acts of conspicuous valor.

Established: 14 April 1915 by Sultan Husayn Kamil. Modified by Royal Order No. 4 of 1923, by Royal Order No. 50 of 1926, and Royal Order No. 12 of 1936. Became obselete with the revolution of 1952.

Obverse: The order is a six-pointed gold star with green enamel with smaller points between. In the center green medallion with Arabic inscription ?Muhammad Ali? and wide white band with Arabic inscription: ?Charity, Justice and Freedom from Vindictiveness are the Strength of a Kingdom.? The medals are of a roughly circular scaloped design are were awarded in gold and silver, suspended from a swiveling (?) straight-bar suspender. They have on the obverse the stylized caligraphic legend ????? 1333".

Reverse: The medals have, above, a stylized sword with the hilt toward the right, and, below, the inscription ?Misr? or ?Egypt?. The central region is blank and, presumably, would be enrgraved with details of the award.

Ribbon: Green moir? with white edge stripes. For the lowest classes, this is a 37-mm ribbon with 5.5-mm white stripes inset from each edge by 1.5 mm.

-- collar

-- grand cordon ? sash, sash badge, and star

-- commander ? neck badge and star (1915-??)

-- medals of the order:

---- gold medal

---- silver medal

[ilja559]

My find in Egypt

1. Aswan dam

2. A military factory

3. A medal of Palestine

4. A medal on October 6

5.20 anniversary of revolution

6. Engineering institute

7.25 anniversary of Sinai freedom

[ChrisW]

Very nice finds! You must have spent several hours in the Khan Khalili to come up with these. It's frustrating that so many medals available there lack ribbons, and often the suspensions.

The 25th Anniversary of Sinai Liberation medal is especially nice -- this is a new one to me. (Sinai Liberation Day is April 25, 1982, so this medal would presumably have first been issued in 2007.) Did you find this one at Bichay?

Thanks for posting these!

Chris

[ilja559]

To me my friend from Egypt has found these medals.

Medal of " 25 years of Sinai freedom" in an original box. Unfortunately the seller has not wanted to give the document.

On a medal it is written " Аnniversary of Sinai freedom " 1982-2007.

On a tape "25".

[oamotme]

Dear Ilja,

The Arabic would be better translated as "Commemoration of Liberation of Sinai" which would imply, at least outwardly, that the Egyptian military were active in this liberation!

I note the novel and previously unseen method of suspension

Owain

[ilja559]

Thanks Owain !

[Ed_Haynes]

Yes, a very nice one, and I've never seen such a good image of it. Thanks.

[Ingsoc]

Not exactly a medal but nevertheless interesting. this is an original key chain from the period which the Aswan Dam was opened.It's depict the event.

[mhohssam]

This is a commemorative 50 piaster coin that has been put into a frame. These are common in Egypt. (I have this coin btw)

[ilja559]

I think this is Medal of Sport.

Instituted in 1952 ?

Any comments please.

Regards.

Ilja

[oamotme]

Ilja,

Nice piece and an uncommon one too - if you have a spare let me know!

Obverse - "Al Riyadiyah" (The Sport)

Reverse - Jumhouriyah Masr" (Republic of Egypt) - "Nowt Al Riyadiyah" (Decoration of Sport) and the dates 1953 - 1373.

Kind regards, Owain