EK 1939 An EK2 packet thoughts and findings

[Marcus H]

This has been a recent venture of mine, with little or no avail though.

While doubt and dubious reckoning surround this packet for founded reasons in fold, but I must say I'm of the opinion the packet is genuine. The paper and designation prescribe to what I'd purport as genuine of the period concerned. I have no contention with the actual maker mark as a printed facet of this anomalous packet either. I've compared the maker mark to known other examples of this maker on the Mothers Cross packet for one, you've variations in the content of most maker marks and the style, fraktur or 'modern' fraktur the Latin depicted style.

Two versions are encountered as such, those with the Ldo warranty (!!!!) and of course those without, I'm of the knowledge as such both 'versions' emersed from a recent hoard, numbers of with and without the Ldo warrenty unknown. I don't proffess to have any inner knowledge of this hoard but I do know an explanation that first eminated from a collector friend in Germany when they were very first circulated. For a bit of background and interest, the packets were bound in paper and came in wooden slated crates, the conditon of the packets was very good to poorly soiled and faded. It's said they were found in an old factory being demolished, my unmarked version came from Dresden it was there subsequently a picker for a dealer bought that whole lot. I'd imagine some circulated from this source others else where perhaps. It was said from the seller that several crates were found and bought up at the time he purchased one crate.

Hoard, this makes one sceptical from the onset with preset notions of 'other' stories from past and old on the same theme, we've probably all heard and read similar stories. The condition, again this seems deter collectors......six of one half a dozen of the other, I don't pay to much attention to that concern though.

The other contention, this maker Carl Forster & Graf cannot be attributed to an EK marked or unmarked I'm told, nor is this maker as of yet known to have produced EK's that is recorded on paper in some way, shape or form.

A provincial though on my part perhaps, but we aren't aware of all the makers of EK's to my knowledge, so why couldn't perhaps this be one of the unknown makers ?

Rather than stories and condition etc I've tried to evaluate the the packet first and then consider the other contentions and concerns. I'm no researcher or expert, so all this may seem a trifle and of little conseqence....if not a provincial analysis.

This is a non definitive thread, just looking and questioning a few things concerning the the packet itself. Any help advice or idea's, thoughts, I'd appreciate. I'd like to resovle this mystery packet and the maker in terms of EK production perhaps.

Lets take a look then:

The packet with Ldo warranty, exactly the same as the void warranty packets.

[Marcus H]

This one has the Ldo warrenty on the reverse, the packet devoid of the warrenty is exactly the same with this maker mark and came from the same 'hoard'.

I've only ever encountered one packet not seemingly from the hoard that came with an unmarked EK. I'll try and obtain that picture for reference also.

Note the shade of ink on the Ldo warrenty ?

Edited August 29, 2005 by Marcus H

[Marcus H]

The designation, this conforms to known and genuine examples in my opinion. Not only does it conform, I can't distinguish between this desigantion and other genuine ones of this larger* (I'll explain that one later)type of designation. As much to stay, I really don't think this personaly is a fake effort or modern ink. Variations in the print will and do exist to proportions of the designation in the same scale. But there are two distinct variation's of this specific style out of interest, that can't be attributed to printing variancies.

Three large type desigantion's one of them being the packets in question.

(My photo shop skills here don't represent a very good picture)

Edited August 29, 2005 by Marcus H

[Marcus H]

There is out of interest a smaller designation along the very close lines of this 'larger' one I mentioned above. Observing many packets, I noted this designation which to the eye looks the same, but on closer inspection there exist examples of desigantion of this type that are smaller, and deviate slightly.

Recognition of the smaller v larger designation is as follows:

A dip in the stem of the larger desig. '1' of the date (Where the smaller desig. dosen't) and the last '9' is always less defined in a rounded sense (Where as in the smaller desig. it is defined)

There are others, should you really be that concerned I'll let you look for them, I ask myself half the time is this really bloody worth it ?

Larger design is on the bottom

[Marcus H]

The Ldo warranty.

There's been some deliberation and idea's on this, it's been mentioned as an addition to the packet perhaps, the packet is fake as a whole, and that on the addition side of things, this is a modern computor printing process with the spacing of the letters within the Ldo warranty. True, it's not the same as on the Ldo paper small packets. But.......*

[Marcus H]

.......it does coincide witht eh Ldo warrenty on the cellophane genuine packets (Not to be confused with wax packets, or indeed the tan paper packets Ldo warrenty)

[Marcus H]

An overlay, I think this dispells at least perhaps the notion it's a modern computor generated warranty, at this stage perhaps. This is a heavy inked cellophane packet and not the best example perhaps to use, the others were to feint really to see.

The packet isn't dead flat under the scanner and the packet kept moving, but aleast you can see the proportions of the letters and size. When held on the packet by hand, it's a perfect match.

Edited August 29, 2005 by Marcus H

[Marcus H]

A better example of the cellophane packet Ldo warrenty

[Marcus H]

In addition to the cellophane packet, we do have a SMALLER version of the Ldo packet with not the exact same warrenty but the letter spacing.

[Marcus H]

Wiht the exception of a few theories this is all I have come up with really on this quest.

Any idea's ?

Here's a shot to show the difference in inks perhaps to mm and warrenty, could this be a post application ?

Edited August 29, 2005 by Marcus H

[Stogieman]

Marcus, I cannot imagine this packet being anything other than real. Show me 200 in the next month and that might change my mind, but if I picked this up at a show, I'd be quite happy with it. IMO, materials, printing, design are all consistent with multiple variations on other/known original packets.

[Bill Garvy]

I too had heard the "hoard" stories of crates of these being found. . . I picked one up from Niemann some time ago, and I like all of its characteristics as compared to an original. It even smells old! It is interesting to note, no Iron Cross, 2nd Class maker mark has been associated with this particular manufacturer. Perhaps it is one of the dozen or so unknowns? Edited August 29, 2005 by Bill Garvy

[Bill Garvy]

reverse. . .

[Bill Garvy]

maker stamp close-up. . .

[Nick]

Marcus

I was recently disturbed to learn that an Ek2 packet I sold (a few years back) with original EK and ribbon is probably a fake (the envelope that is). The packet came from a lot of various envelopes bought from a well known dealer a few years back if I recall correctly.

Can you give us more of a general input on EK2 packets and what to look out for.

Nick