Soviet Stupid uniform question

[Ed_Haynes]

As a part of a stack of documents and photos (but only a few medals ) that has recently come my way were a couple of what are -- to me at least -- unusual uniform shots. Help, please. What am I seeing here?

The first- faded toward the left.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

Some closeups:

1-

[Ed_Haynes]

2-

[Ed_Haynes]

and

3-

[Ed_Haynes]

And what seems to be a photo of these guys "at work".

Edited August 23, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Ed_Haynes]

And "at work" in other ways.

[Ed_Haynes]

And a closeup on the arm badge.

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks in advance for help and advice.

[Ed_Haynes]

Oh, let me add another, same family, and a loving family group it is.

[Ed_Haynes]

And a closeup on the young chap in uniform.

[Ed_Haynes]

And this one has a pencil scribble on the reverse, tweaked to make it as "legible" as I can. All I can discern is the date of 12 March 1920 (?).

[Guest Rick Research]

The winged wheels are, no surprise, Motor Transport. But some of them seem to have the stubby rather "telescope" looking Machine Gun unit badge of this period superimposed IN that-- so I'd hazard these are...

mechanized machine gunners.

Some have got small badges on their caps with something crossed in a wreath... engineering, perhaps?

Don't know why so many are wearing branch insignias on their caps instead of the regulation stars, when they DO have the lovely bullion branch sleeve insignia. All in a muddle, end of the Civil War period.

All I get out of the scribbled-over is "In happy memory of...."

[Vatjan]

Hi Ed,

That seems to be same insignia the belgian armoured cars regiment that fought in Russia during WWI wore.

They wore a blend of Belgian uniforms with Russian insignias.

The full name of the Regiment was the "Corps des Autos Canons Mitrailleuses" (ACM) or "Car-canon-machine gun corps"

Best regards

Jan

PS sorry for the bad pic, but it's all I have

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks! This gets more and more interesting.

[Riley1965]

Most interesting indeed!!! This is the first ones that I have seen. I'd like to learn more about them.

Doc

[Guest Rick Research]

Bingo! There it is, as Jan has posted!

The bullion and multi-colored sleeve insignias are on a base of part of the globe and rising rayed sun...

and "do not exist" in any insignia reference I've ever seen.

Obviously the departed Tsarist/White Belgians' insignia made an impression and left behind metal ones must have inspired the Red bullion ones.

Extremely interesting!!!!!!!!

don't look now, ED.... we're luring you into the Wide World Beyond

Mere Metal!

[Ed_Haynes]

As the wise old Lady said, "curiouser and curiouser".

Two documents may (or may not) help, but I can't read 'em .

The first I have related to him:

[Ed_Haynes]

And the first I have in a series of similar documents.

I am really (REALLY) trying not to flood.

[Ed_Haynes]

As must as you wish I were not a Российский языковой неграмотный, I wish so even more!

[Ed_Haynes]

And, by the way, the closest match to known (presumed?) photos of Yevgeny Stanislavovich that I can find in the photo that launched this thread.

[Guest Rick Research]

Document in post #17 is in OLD Russian, with all those extra letters and Tsarist terms for things (Province as "Gubernaya" rather than "Oblast" etc) so about all I get out of that is he was apparently called to military service in 1915 from or in Vitebsk Province, and this is basically his notice of Red military service from the Petrograd Soviet on 27/14 March 1918.

#18 is the earliest "modern" Russian document I have ever seen, and is from the 23rd Armored Car Detachment, 28 August 1919 stating that per the undersigned (Commander and Adjutant) of that unit, the bearer Red Army Private Yevgeny Strod serves in the higher position within the unit of a reserve driver, for purpose of identification this is issued to him 28 September 1919.

[Ed_Haynes]

Interesting . . . thanks, Rick!

I guess this means I'll have to get a full translation of the whole stack . . . $$$s

Edited August 25, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Belaruski]

The Osprey Red Army of the Russian Civil War boopk is full of examples like this of Shoulder board insignia being canibalised and supplemented to create both cap and sleeve insignia.

Essentially as long as you didn't wear an Imperial cockade and pogoni you could wear almost anything!

[Sergey]

As the wise old Lady said, "curiouser and curiouser".

Two documents may (or may not) help, but I can't read 'em .

The first I have related to him:

Free translation

The document given for Evgenie Stroz, begun military service in 1915, born in Vitebsk province village Lesnay under the order of the National Commissioner of Military affairs on January, 20th this year. It is dismissed from military service with delivery from the state of money and the foodstuffs. It is certified by a press and the signature.