US Ribbon Bar

[Peter_Suciu]

I am trying to help a friend identify this ribbon bar.

As stated by my friend:

It has 3 ribbons on it, the 1st is the World War 2 Victory Medal, the 2nd one I have no clue, and the 3rd is World War 1 Occupation Medal. I have looked everywhere and so far I have not been able to find out what the 2nd ribbon is. It is blue-white-red-white-red-white-blue

[Guest Rick Research]

That is an exceptionally odd combination. Upside down, chronologically.

The middle one, if memory serves, actually has a pale yellow center stripe (VERY pale-- probably only shows if you slide it off to see the back) and is something related to VFW/American Legion membership/meetings.

There was a very similar French WW1 souvenir type medal with that ribbon, but that would make even less sense here. Here it is bottom right next to what I think was a French souvenir shop St Mihiel medal sold to the Doughboy who came back wearing that pair:

Maybe for the Meuse-Argonne? Those two sectors were where he was, before getting his US Victory Medal.

The other "mystery ribbon" on the top bar I know was for a DAV Convention because I remember the full sized version with the celluloid name plate insert.

I think somebody monkeyed around with multiple rows and put them back together wrong.

My Brooklyn great uncle The Colonel always had his WW1-Korea ribbons mounted on separate 3-across rows.

You find some weirdies sometimes. I have sets from a severely underdecorated US Army signals major, a local professor, who decided to impress the Bolivians he was serving with by tarting up his minimal rack with things like his DAR and Descendants of the Colonial Clergy Society membership ribbons!!!

[David S]

I believe that it belongs to a Veterans Organization.

VFW if I'm not mistaken, their Bronze Citizenship Medal.

As Ricky posted the center should be yellow, a number I've seen have faded.

[JBFloyd]

VFW membership medal.

[DetroitPC]

I am the friend that asked Pete to help me figure out what ribbon this was, thank you all for the quick replies. With that information I was able to find a medal that matched it. It is blue-white-red-white-red-white-blue; I took the slide-mount to get a good look at the back.

Rick said, "That is an exceptionally odd combination. Upside down, chronologically", so what order should they have been in? Or is it just upside down?

Where might I find some sort of information on the order ribbons should be in?

I believe they belonged to my ex's great uncle. Why I have them is another mystery.

[FireMedals]

DetroitPC

If these were your ex-great uncle, he either had an interesting military career, or your missing some ribbons.

If these are his only ribbons the WWI Occupation would be first (on the viewers left) and the WWII Victory to the right. The VFW Membership Medal ribbon is unofficial and wouldn't be on the bar, except for a veteran wearing it after his discharge, when it would be worn after any regulation awards (but vets' dress to their own regulations).

The interesting thing is, if this is his total medal entitlement, he entered the US service after Nov. 11, 1918 (the cut-off date for the WWI Victory Medal) yet managed to get to Germany for Occupation duty, the qualification time, I think, ended in July 1923. Then the WWII Victory was issued for at least one day of service between 7 Dec. 1941 and 31 Dec. 1946. Odd he wouldn't have had enough time in for at least an American Campaign, or a Good Conduct Medal (if Army). However I had a US Navy group to a WWI sailor who got out in the 30's and got recalled in 41, but got sick and discharged, and his only entitlement was a WWII Victory.

While the US ribbons aren't as easy to read as some the the great German bars on the GMIC, it's still fun to try.

FireMedals

[DetroitPC]

I know I don't have them all. The post was to find out what the one middle ribbons was. I am guessing this bar was worn on a suit to VFW meetings long after he was discharged.

The other ribbons I do have of his (or at least I think they are his) include:

the Army Good Conduct ribbon (with 2 bronze knots)

the American Defence ribbon (with one bronze star)

the American Campain ribbon

the Europe-Africa-Middle East ribbon (with 3 bronze stars)

the Combat Infantry Badge

[Andwwils]

Very uncommon for a 40+ year-old recalled NCO to have gotten a CIB during WWII. No WWI Victory Medal at all? I'm not sure how Good Conduct Medals worked for recalled enlisted types during WWII.

[Guest Rick Research]

I wonder if the post-WW1 Occupation Medal here is an error for the post-WW2 one?

[NavyFCO]

I wonder if the post-WW1 Occupation Medal here is an error for the post-WW2 one?

Yes, initially, the WW1 Occupation ribbon was given out after WW2 to those on occupation duty in 1945-46. Not that common, but it was documented to have happened.

Dave

[DetroitPC]

Yes, initially, the WW1 Occupation ribbon was given out after WW2 to those on occupation duty in 1945-46. Not that common, but it was documented to have happened.

Dave

So then with that, the rest could possibly be his? Makes more sense if it is for WW2 and not for WW1. I know he was in for quite a long time if I remember correctly.

They were given to me along with a few other relics (like a old bus pass from the 50's and some books from the 1800's).

[FireMedals]

Yes, initially, the WW1 Occupation ribbon was given out after WW2 to those on occupation duty in 1945-46. Not that common, but it was documented to have happened.

Dave

Dave,

If you have a reference to the WWI Occupation being given for WWII Occupation service, can you send me the source. I'd love to document that.

As far as his other awards, I would think a man who entered the Army right after WWI, and qualified for the WWI Occupation, spent the inter-war years doing his time on active duty, and got to Europe again in 44-45 (possibly at the age of 44-45 y.o.) as a senior Sgt. could certainly qualify for the CIB. Maybe to some of you guys 45 y.o. is over the hill, but I knew some good senior NCO's in SEA who had both WWII and Korea service, and they hadn't slowed down a bit.

the Army Good Conduct ribbon (with 2 bronze knots)

the American Defence ribbon (with one bronze star)

the American Campain ribbon

the Europe-Africa-Middle East ribbon (with 3 bronze stars)

the Combat Infantry Badge

These point to a man in the service pre- 7 Dec., and with three campaign stars, he certainly could have seen enought combat for a CIB.

DetroitPC - you should request a service file on him. It would be interesting to confirm if any of our theories is close.

FireMedals

Edited August 30, 2007 by FireMedals

[Andwwils]

I think the WWI Occupation Ribbon being a substitute for the WWII version is the most likely answer given the presense of the CIB and only two knots on the GCM. The knots themselves didn't appear as a device until after WWII (I think).

[flight1859]

I am trying to help a friend identify this ribbon bar.

As stated by my friend:

It has 3 ribbons on it, the 1st is the World War 2 Victory Medal, the 2nd one I have no clue, and the 3rd is World War 1 Occupation Medal. I have looked everywhere and so far I have not been able to find out what the 2nd ribbon is. It is blue-white-red-white-red-white-blue

Rackbuilder.

http://ultimaterack.ajandj.com/

[flight1859]

I am the friend that asked Pete to help me figure out what ribbon this was, thank you all for the quick replies. With that information I was able to find a medal that matched it. It is blue-white-red-white-red-white-blue; I took the slide-mount to get a good look at the back.

Rick said, "That is an exceptionally odd combination. Upside down, chronologically", so what order should they have been in? Or is it just upside down?

Where might I find some sort of information on the order ribbons should be in?

I believe they belonged to my ex's great uncle. Why I have them is another mystery.

Rackbuilder

http://ultimaterack.ajandj.com/

[NavyFCO]

If you have a reference to the WWI Occupation being given for WWII Occupation service, can you send me the source. I'd love to document that.

I don't know of a reference that says "Award the WW1 Occupation Ribbon for WW2 Occupation duty", but what I can tell you is that the ribbon was originally the "Occupation" ribbon (why call it "WW1" in 1919 when there had only been one world war???) Thus, when the first awards of the Occupation ribbon(medal) were awarded post-WW2, this was what was received, as it was listed in the stock system as the only Occupation award available.

Dave

[Mark Schroeder]

Here is proof the occupation medal from 1919 was given out and worn after WW2..

From my collection, the uniform of an ESB officer and a portrait of him wearing the same jacket.

[Ulsterman]

Dead on.

My local historical society has five WW2 uniforms in it-all from known locals. One has the WW1 occupation ribbon on the rack-although the guy who wore it was only 23 in 1945. He served in the Germany 1944-49 and came back to run a local garage.