WW1 Trio

[Bayoswede]

Hi all collectors!

I am planning to buy a group with 1914-15 Star, Victory and War medal

they are all named to an 01743 J.F Wood I am totally lost when its comes to researching British medals and I have been

racing around internet to find something about this soldier but probably I have been looking on the wrong places.....

Could anyone help me? I found my way to the National Archive but ther was only one 6619 J.F Wood ?? What do the numbers in front of the name means? I thought it would be a personal number?

Thanks in advance !

Christer

[Ed_Haynes]

What is the exact naming on each of the three medals? That is a very odd naming.

[Bayoswede]

What is the exact naming on each of the three medals? That is a very odd naming.

Hi Ed, talk about lightning fast answer

It says 01743 Pte J.F Wood A.S.C on the Victory and War medal

On the star its hard to read by the sellers pics but it looks like

T2-SR-01743

GVR J. F Wood

A. S. C

I am unsure if its a G or Q, D ??

I enclose a pic , maybe you can spot the right letters !

Christer

[Ed_Haynes]

OK, he is Army Service Corps, a Private (Pte) on the 1914-15 Star and Driver (DVR) on the other two. The 01743/T2-SR-01743 is his regimental number, but the "T2-SR"??? The ASC abbreviations will make strong men weep, and/or run to their reference materials.

You should be able to find a card for him online from the National Archives at Kew, but I'll let others, more intimate with that process address (all the cards for Indians were thrown out years ago, so I am spared those sources ).

[Tony]

Got him I think http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1

tony

[Ed_Haynes]

Yes, the first one is this man. Thanks, Tony, your fingers are quicker than mine. Getting the card will fill in more details (and checking the original rolls may add even more).

[Tony]

Yes, the first one is this man. Thanks, Tony, your fingers are quicker than mine. Getting the card will fill in more details (and checking the original rolls may add even more).

Ed, it does look like SR on the reverse of the Star doesn't it. According to the PRO it should be SB but mistakes do happen.

I have no idea about the prefix either, T2 is new army transport I think but SB for the ASC oe SR even???

He isn't listed as killed.

Tony

[Ed_Haynes]

Ed, it does look like SR on the reverse of the Star doesn't it. According to the PRO it should be SB but mistakes do happen.

I have no idea about the prefix either, T2 is new army transport I think but SB for the ASC oe SR even???

He isn't listed as killed.

Tony

Looks like SR to me too. Will be interesting to see the card and see if we can translate these mystery letters.

[Bayoswede]

Yes, the first one is this man. Thanks, Tony, your fingers are quicker than mine. Getting the card will fill in more details (and checking the original rolls may add even more).

Wow !!

1000 Thanks Tony and Ed !! I was just trying to look in the NA but you beat me to it

Evening saved

Christer

[Bayoswede]

Wow !!

1000 Thanks Tony and Ed !! I was just trying to look in the NA but you beat me to it

Evening saved

Christer

Hi again, I got the card and hopefullty I can load it up here

Chris

card.doc

[Bayoswede]

Hi again, I got the card and hopefullty I can load it up here

Chris

Now I can see some more info about this WWI driver, one thing that puzzles me is the 4th entry?

Hes got BWM

VictM

Star

and ?

Maybe I have to take a vacation and go to England? Kew is probably a nice place in December?

Christer

[Ed_Haynes]

Much to puzzle out here . . .

[Graham Stewart]

This may or may not be correct, but I'm a member of the Great War Forum also which has a lot of people who are into the ASC and it's prefixes and taking your mans regimental number T2/SR/01743, it possibly means this

T2 = Horse Transport(2nd New Army).

SR - Strapper Remounts.

01743 = Regimental number.

Noted on your downloaded MIC that the initials had been changed from SB to SR, and apparently 'S' was a trade called 'Strapper' and 'R' was 'Remounts' within the ASC.

On a similar note I picked up some paperwork today for an ASC man whose number was TS/3934 and this means Horse Transport(T) Strapper(S). On one piece of paperwork it does actually say his civilian trade is 'strapper'.

Graham.

Edited August 29, 2007 by Graham Stewart

[christerd]

Thank you Graham, I have been collecting Russian, Mongolian, german , bulgarian and Finnish orders/medals and

always having nightmares trying to read certificates, and now a new world opens for me. wht didn?t I start collecting British medals 25 years ago

But even now when I can read the language I still confused, I understand Remounts was keeping/handling the horses used in A.S.C but what do a Starpper do? I can?t find the word in any lexicon.

And one more thing about the MIC , could he been awarded a Silver War Badge?

Thank everyone for your help to a novise collector

Christer

[Graham Stewart]

Christer,

I'm as wise as you are as to what a 'strapper' did, but it was classed as a trade in both the Army and civvy street.

The British and Empire Silver War Badges are covered within this Forum here;-

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13142.

I also posted a couple of certificates which were presented with the badges, which were given for 'Services Rendered', not specifically for wounds or overseas service. They would more likely be issued to a man who was discharged under Kings Regulations Paragraph 392(xvi) being "no longer physically fit for war service".

So if he wasn't discharged under KR's 392(xvi) then it's unlikely he would get one.

Graham.

[Kev in Deva]

Gentlemen,

I believe a "strapper" would have been connected

to leather harness making, for use with supply waggons.

But, stand open to correction.

Kevin in Deva

[Ed_Haynes]

Gentlemen,

I believe a "strapper" would have been connected

to leather harness making, for use with supply waggons.

But, stand open to correction.

Kevin in Deva

That would be my GUESS (too?) Kevin, but . . . ???

[Michael Johnson]

A quick search indicates that a strapper is a junior stablehand. "Strapping" is also a form of horse grooming.

[leigh kitchen]

T2SR prefix - "Horse Transport Special Reserve" - enlisted for Kitcheners New Armies.

There was also a T1SR prefix, so presumably refering to Kitchener 1 & Kitchener 2 Armies.

Looking at his units perhaps transferred from ASC to infantry (still at his ASC pay which would be quite a bit above his other infantry colleagues pay) because of a need for infantry, the n Labour Corps so medically down graded due to illness, injury or wounds?

The 4th medal entry" refers to a "substitute duplicate" issue of the 15 Star which was then for some reason returned, hence the word "deleted" meaning deleted from the medal roll. Howard Williamsons book "The Collector & Researchers Guide to The Great War" Volume 1, page 389 has a photo of a MIC with similar entry, & in the same persons handwriting.

Also on the card is an entry for "1915 Star retd( returned) CRV (Certified Receipt Voucher) 143/S dt (dated?) 16.5.23" & below it a feference to "15 Star issd" (issued), this entry includes "LC" which refers to Labour Corps?

The Rifle Bde number - the 8th Bn Rifle Bde had a S prefix, but I dont know if that's relevant to this mans entry - I notice that there is a JF Wood listed on the CWGC site (obviously not this man) who had a S prefix 5 digit number & was in the 1st Bn Rifle Bde.

Edited September 5, 2007 by leigh kitchen

[Ed_Haynes]

A very plausible career reconstruction, Leigh.

[leigh kitchen]

It seems rather strange that following the entry relating to the 15 Star being returned 16.5.23 there is another entry stating that a 15 Star was issued to the applicant 14.6.23.

So he was issued the Star, then a replacement was issued & returned & within a few weeks another Star is issued?

There's no reference to a Star being returned for correction or replacement because of a mistake in naming, so perhaps he lost or never received his first issue Star, had moved or was otherwise unable to take receipt of his duplicate issue & then applied again & was issued a Star?

The Labour Corps had its own Records Office, the LC/ prefix codes relate to that office - being his last unit the Labour Corps held his final records although this isn't always the case. The LC prefix appears on the Medal roll reference for the duplicate Star & the subsequent entries refering to the Star.

The M/1C medals roll reference for the 15 Star - "M" was used as a the prefix of the Winchester Records Office, so it's the prefix used for medal roll references for the Rifle Bde & KRRC for the award of BWM & VM. Was his original Star issued with the Rifle Bde wrongly given as his unit & returned for correction to ASC?

The Pay Office for the ASC was "THe Huts, Woolwich", (Cambridge Barracks, Woolwich for the ASC MT), the Records Office was at Woolwich Dockyard.

The Rifle Brigade Pay Office & Records Office was at Winchester for regular battaalions, the TF battalions Pay Office was London District, Records Office 4, London Wall Buildings, London EC2.

The Labour Corps Pay Office & Records Office were at Nottingham.

A check of Soldiers Died may help indicate which battalion of the Rifle Bde he was in by comparing his number with those of fatalities.

Edited September 6, 2007 by leigh kitchen

[leigh kitchen]

Graham Stewart Quote:

This may or may not be correct, but I'm a member of the Great War Forum also which has a lot of people who are into the ASC and it's prefixes and taking your mans regimental number T2/SR/01743, it possibly means this

T2 = Horse Transport(2nd New Army).

SR - Strapper Remounts.

01743 = Regimental number.

Noted on your downloaded MIC that the initials had been changed from SB to SR, and apparently 'S' was a trade called 'Strapper' and 'R' was 'Remounts' within the ASC.

On a similar note I picked up some paperwork today for an ASC man whose number was TS/3934 and this means Horse Transport(T) Strapper(S). On one piece of paperwork it does actually say his civilian trade is 'strapper'.

Graham.

This post has been edited by Graham Stewart: Aug 30 2007, 00:08

TS/3934 ? the TS means that this man was Transport Specials (Labour) (Special Enlistment)

S as an ASC prefix or first letter in a prefix indicates Supply.

R prefix is Remounts

SR does?nt appear together as a prefix but as part of prefix S1SR & S2SR ? Supply Enlisted Reserve for New Armies 1 & 2.

From 20/11/16 the 2 & the 4 were dropped from the T2, S4 etc of the New Army Horse Transport (T) & Supply (S) numbers leaving just the letter T or S, I don?t know if this applied to the 1st & 3rd New Army numbers.

The prefix for Strapper would appear not as a prefix to a serial number but before the name on a medal, to indicate ?trade?, in the same way for example that DVR appears for Driver

As far as I?m aware there are no uses of S or R in this way & I can?t find ?Strapper? as a military trade, except for a reference on this site..

http://www.sole.org.uk/ww1army.htm

& another on this one - "Michael Lennon ASC RTS/2412 WO 372/12" (RS & RTS being Remount Specials prefixes).

http://users.skynet.be/ken.lennan/acrobat/olen2pd.pdf

Edited September 6, 2007 by leigh kitchen

[Riley1965]

Hello Graham,

What is the link to the Great War Forum?

Doc

Edited September 6, 2007 by Riley1965