Imperial General's Tunic?

[GregK]

Hi chaps,

I rarely venture into the Germanic side of the hobby and even more rarely the Imperial. A friend has this tunic that he is looking for some info on. He acquired it from some friends in Germany many years ago. I don't have any other info aside from that as to where it came from

To my untrained eye it looks spot on. I don't see any of the usual red flags that I check for on my end of the hobby's spectrum. The story goes that it belonged to a fellow named M?hlenfels but that fact may be incorrect. There appears to be some naming in both the tunic and trousers but I don't know (or better put..can't read) what it says accurately.

About 11 pics to follow. I will try to describe as I go along. I should also mention (and I hate doing so) but he is contemplating selling this tunic also and would like to know a fair market value and the best method of disposal.

Thanks in advance,

Greg

1. Overall shot of the tunic and trousers (and the heavy bullion belt thingy)

2. Better shot of the tunic alone (sort of)

3. The back of the tunic.

4. Inside of the tunic.

5. Collar insignia detail.

[GregK]

More photos.

6. Cuff insignia detail.

7. Shoulder insignia detail.

8. Award loop detail.

9. Ribbon bar loop detail.

10. Trouser marking detail. It almost appears to read Martini

11. Tunic naming detail. I should mention that this is all that remains of the tag.

Thanks again in advance.

Edited September 3, 2007 by GregK

[Mike Dwyer]

Looking at the Ehren Rangliste Heeres 1914 1918, in the list of inactive Generalleutnants I managed to locate a Generalleutnant Martini who died 10.8.22.

I'm afraid that's all I can offer.

[GregK]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the info. It's certainly more than I had 24 hours ago. I'd still love to know more about the fellow though. Is there any way to get more service info on him or to find out what awards he was awarded?

In all honesty (even though it's not in my collecting field) for the right price I would be interested in taking this tunic grouping off my friends hands.

Cheers,

Greg

[Mike Dwyer]

If you'll wait just a bit GlennJ or Rick Research might come by and they can tell you just about everything you would ever want to know about Generalleutnant Martini. Sometimes I think GlennJ has some of these guys medical records he gets so detailed with his information!

[GregK]

HI Mike,

Thanks for the update. I'll hang out for a bit and hope the other fellows show up. Again a big thanks for the info so far.

Cheers,

Greg

[Glenn J]

Mike, Greg,

that would be char. Generalleutnant z.D. Karl Justin Christian Martini (27 June 1854-10 Aug 1922). A Pionier Officer, he was commissioned as a Second-Lieutenant into the 1st Engineer Inspectorate on 12.10.1875. He rose through the ranks of Corps of Engineer/Pioneer Officers as follows:

Premier-Lieutenant: 13.12.83

Hauptmann:15.10.89

Major: 13.9.99

Oberstleutnant: 10.4.06

Oberst: 24.3.09

Generalmajor: 22.4.12 Gg

char. Generalleutnant: 3.11.15

His final peacetime assignment prior to retiring on 1 October 1912 was as the Inspector of the 3. Ingenieur-Inspektion at Stra?burg i.E. from 22 May 1912. He had previously been the Inspector of the 6th Fortress Inspectorate at Metz from 11 September 1909 to 22 May 1912. At the time of his promotion to char. Generalleutnant in November 1915 he was the Commandant of Maubeuge.

Known awards: RAO3S, KO3, DA, BMV2X, SA2aX

Regards

Glenn

[Guest Rick Research]

Now I think we need Chip.

Isn't this an OLDER model dress tunic, what with the buttons all the way down the front? Too early to have been a 1912 promoted General?

19th Century?

[Mike Dwyer]

Now I think we need Chip.

Isn't this an OLDER model dress tunic, what with the buttons all the way down the front? Too early to have been a 1912 promoted General?

19th Century?

Yes, Rick, you're right, I didn't notice that, but that is an older model general's coat with the buttons all the way down the front. I don't know when they quit making them like that.

[GdC26]

Now I think we need Chip.

Isn't this an OLDER model dress tunic, what with the buttons all the way down the front? Too early to have been a 1912 promoted General?

19th Century?

Rick,

The 12 button front is correct for prussian General?s tunics of around 1910 (see the enclosed scan, taken from Kn?tel/Pietsch/Collas - which deals with the German army?s dress immediately prior to WWI -Volume II ), they were, however, never worn with all 12 buttons closed: the lower four buttons were normally left open (Kn?tel/Pietsch/Collas Volume I, page 26).

As to price, Helmut Weitze and Ken Greenfield (der Rittmeister) offer similar tunics, in Ken?s case for a (much rarer) Saxon General, both of them with epaulettes i.s.o. shoulderboards, and both of them in better shape.

Regards,

Sandro

Edited September 3, 2007 by GdC26

[GdC26]

And for reference, this is what the old style parade tunic looked like.

Regards,

Sandro

[Guest Rick Research]

[nesredep]

Hi

Very nice.

Nesredep

[Mike Dwyer]

So, getting back to the point Rick mentioned, if this coat went out around 1910 and Martini made general in 1912, would it be his? Could it be he bought it ahead of time, feeling confident he'd make general? Could it be he bought a used coat from a friend? Could it be his tailor wasn't up to date and made him a coat in the older style?

It's very hard to read, but it looks to me like the label in the coat does say Martini.

[Glenn J]

Mike,

it is the pattern used as parade dress since December 1909 (with epaulettes) although this pattern Waffrenrok with the General's "Larisch" embroidery had been in use since 1900 for less formal and service wear.

Regards

Glenn

[GregK]

Hi Guys,

WOW!! Thanks for the heaps of information. You guys are all amazing!!! Just a quick question though. I'm not up to speed on Imperial German award abbreviations so if you guys could please decipher I would be very appreciative. Also does anyone know where a photo of this chap could be found (if any)?

Again a big thank you to all who posted!!

Cheers,

Greg