Lübeck Got Lübeck

[Richarddwh]

Front of postcard

[Stijn David]

Hello Richard,

Thank ou for showing these 2 medal bars, very fine pieces. Is there someone of the readers who wants to transliterate the text on the postcard? mayby that can point towards the direction of the former wearer of that medal bar.

Anyway also very nice postcard, just love it

Cordial greetings,

[Richarddwh]

Thanks Stijn, these two bars are among my favourites. I don't possess any attributable bars so would be keen to trace the recipient of one of these. I've taken a couple more scans of the reverse of the postcard.

[Richarddwh]

Looks like the award criteria.

[Guest Rick Research]

Horrid pencil scribblies and too closely cropped in the message part to get COMPLETE anything. It looks like an illiterate child threw in random "my greetings to X and Y and Z" and there is such a jumble I don't get the SENDER'S name.

The return address is stamped over:

Ersatz Reservist W.............

Wachtkompagnie 162

L?beck

[David M]

Hi Richard

That is very interesting. Could you post the entire scan? Where did you find it (source)

@Rick: would you mean civilians by the Krankenpfleger? Because we do have a couple of those

[David M]

So we wuld be looking for an Ersatz Reservist by the name of W....? Wont be to many candidates I guess.

[Richarddwh]

Rick, even to my untrained eye the handwriting looked all over the place! Apologies for the quality of the scan.

David, I bought the bar with the postcard from ebay, the postcard could have therefore been added, though it wasn't actually listed with the bar when I bought it, it just arrived with it. I seem to be struggling with posting images due to the reduction in the quality. Could I possibly email the image to you in a larger file size?

[Stijn David]

Hello dear Forumites,

I think we have the person already by the additional information, let me explain.

We have the following detirmining information;

Rank: Ersatzreservist

Unit: Wachkompanie 162 ( a part of the I.R. 162

Name: W.....

I did a search with these and did find 21 soldiers with the matching rank of 'Ersatzreservist' and the starting letter: W.

Iff i then do a finetuning on the letter W => i have 3 remaining suspects:

* Welle, franz, I.R. 162 - date: 25/11/1916

* Wohlers, Friedrich, I.R. 162 - date: 15/09/1917

* W?rdehoff, Erwin, I.R. 162 - date: 15/09/1917

Iff we then take the date on the postcard also into account, we have: 05.09.1917 and i do believe that i can recognize the letetr "o" behind the W.

So the soldier named "Wohlers" is a very big possibility, howeve rthen we are still strugling with dates => the card is dated: 07/09/1917 and the award entry in L?H roll is from 15/09/1917. Or the cross was awarded and later on the award entry was regularized and entered later?

The 100 % confirmation will be possible iff you can also find this name (Wohlers) on the Mecklenburg FF cross roll.

Cordial greetings,

Edited October 8, 2007 by Stijn David

[Stijn David]

Hello RIchard,

Would it be possible to show the revers eof those medal bars also?

Cordial greetings + thanks in advance

[Richarddwh]

Stijn, thank you for your research, I have to admit to being quite excited at the prospect of identifying this man. I have attached some scans of the reverse, apologies again for the quality. Does anyone know how I can search the Mecklenburg FF cross roll?

[Richarddwh]

The reverse of the four place Lubeck bar.

[Stijn David]

Hello,

Thank you Richard for the reverse of the 2 medal bars => could these 2 bars have been made by the same person? The folding of the ribbons look very alike, the sewing, etc ... also and the catch, etc ... looks also exactly the same. The same juweler perhaps?

I do ask because a L?H bar is also comming my way +will post it once it has arrived. And yes it does look exact the same on terms of sewing, etc....

Any opinions?

Cordial greetings,

[Stijn David]

Hello dear forumites,

As you know are David M and i constantly working on the lovely L?H roll.

Here are the results as of this today:

Totally listed at this point: 5.315 names

Year / Number / Procentual

1915 / 547 / 10,29

1916 / 1.744 / 32,81

1917 / 1.622 / 30,52

1918 / 1.201 / 22,60

1919 / 79 / 1,49

1920 / 42 / 0,79

1921 / 6 / 0,00

subtotal 5.241 98,49

unkown (year of award) 74 1,39

In this number 5.315 we do find the following speical branches

Flieger 36

Marineflieger 14

Marine 337

Luftschiffer 14

Marineluftschiffer 3

Schutztruppe 16

Cordial greetings + lets work on

Edited October 9, 2007 by Stijn David

[Richarddwh]

Stijn,

I've thought the same thing my self, though probably not very evident from the poor photos is the use of red thread on the obverse of both bars. I've seen this on another bar with a Lubeck.

[Stijn David]

Hello RIchard,

I am also expecting a L?H bar in the next week. I will post it as soon as i have it + i do think that in regard of sewing, etc ... we will see a very near match. Same type of colour of thread used to hold the Hindeburgcross in its place, etc..., same way of folding of the ribbons, tec....

Does anyone have actually one of the following pieces in regards of the L?H cross:

* Case of Issue / (or) paper Packet (iff these do exist? )

* Miniatures

Cordial greetings,

[Stijn David]

Hello,

Interesting question => civilians. What are civilians in a wartime period.

Are one of the following seen as civilians?

* Regierungs Bau-inspektor

* Bausekret?r

* Kreisschulinspektor

* Pfleger (with the Freiwillige krankenpflege L?beck)

Cordial greetings,

[Guest Rick Research]

Yes.

[Stijn David]

Hello,

Thank you RIcky for that confirmation , so we also do know now that both military (largest part) and a few civilians did receive the L?H cross

And .......... here is my newest addition. A 4 place medal bar, containing:

* EK 2

* L?H

* Hindenburg cross

* unknown medal (some kind of veteran piece or unofficial award?)

The reverse backing is red + the sewing of the ribbons and threads used to fix the crosses tightly are very similar towards the pieces from Richard

And as a nice bonus a miniature was also amongst this nice piece, containing:

* EK 2

* L?H

* Hindenburg cross

* Black wound badge

So this soldier also was wounded during his time - who is behind it? no clue however ;-)

Cordial greetings,

[Stijn David]

Hello,

The unkown medal does show "Germania" - here figure is surrounded by the words : Wir Deutsche furchten Gott - Aber sonst nichts in der Welt"

The reverse does have a laurelleave with inside this the following dates: "IX - 1866 1918"

Anyone a clue what this medal is?, who did award it?, criteria, etc....

And also here is a close up from that lovely mini (the EK and the L?H are enameled). ther eis no make rmark of any kind.

Cordial greetings + thanks for looking,

[Stijn David]

Hello,

And the reverse of the large medal bar => i think it was made by the exact same persons who did produce the bars from richard.

Cordial greetings,

[Guest Rick Research]

I have heard all sorts of explanations for the mystery medal-- which usually is found on a dark blue (like long service awards) ribbon with a very narrow black center stripe.

It is usually described as an "1866 veterans" piece but I doubt that very much. 1918 was not a year for casual squandering of metal--and there are no 1870 pieces. 52 years is not exactly a normal commemorative "jubilee" period, either.

I believe, but cannot prove without having seen a DOCUMENT for one, that these were made by the IX. Army Corps (created in 1866?) in the hope that 1918 would ALSO be a Year Of Victory--

and is some sort of semi-official award from that level, like the regimental and divisional "reward" medals we sometimes see-- tokens of esteem from a commander but not official decorations.

These are very well made medals and cost somebody a lot of money in Zinky Days.

Usually they are found loose. Yours on a WW1 veteran's medal bar shows it was NOT for "1866 veterans."

[Richarddwh]

Stijn, A very nice bar, and agree it was mounted by the same person as mine. I was sorely tempted to bid on this when I saw it.

[Guest Rick Research]

I THINK these are ALL the L?beck ribbon bars I have.

1) Mystery Oberstleutnant again because maybe if I keep showing it often enough it will magically get identified, augh

2) blue backed and certainly a naval doctor, but no exact match as of the February 1918 Navy Rank List (from David S)

3) typical unbacked WW1 style, so no way to guess. Might be a senior NCOs since there is a long service with no peacetime Order.

4) I know what the awards are on this one since it was separated from its medal bar--

Mecklenburg Schwerin MK2 in 2nd place, and a Prussian XV ahead of the 25 Treudienst and Third Reich Customs Long Service Crosses.

[Stijn David]

Hi RIcky,

Thank you for showing these wonderfull ribbon bars

Any supsects by name on your ribbon bar nr. 1?, iff so i can browse through my files on the L?h to see if any of them ar enoted, etc .... ?

So what do we have on that magnificent bar?

* EK 2

* Red Eagle (?)

* Crown order

* Centenary medal

* Z?hringer L?we - Ritter 1 e class with X

* ?

* Hamburg Hanseatic ?

* L?h

* Austrian milit?r Verdienstkreuz

Should be identifyable iff some names are found - or am i totally mistaking? He was certainly a older Officer during WWI as he did get the Centenial medal. According to his Z?hringer Lion he might have held the minimumrank during WWI of a Hauptmann and mayby a Major? And then i do notice you referr towards this person as a Oberstleutnant

My guess is a staffofficer of some kind who sis rose towards the rank of Major during WWI. As there is no Hindenburg cross on that one he might have passed away by 1934?

Cordial greetings + thanks for showing

Edited October 14, 2007 by Stijn David