Soviet Valiant Labor bar

[Hauptmann]

Hi all,

I'm currently watching this and yet I'm wondering if the Labor medal is not a fake. According to the red bible if the "No" is not made as a part of the medal (which I take to mean raised, like the inscription, and not as it says stamped or engraved) then it's a fake. It seems to meet the other criteria... top of the star on the obverse touching the rim, and the ring being soldered on separately. But if what the red bible says still holds true on this one and I'm correct in how I'm reading it then I assume it's a fake.

And by the way, the seller wrote back in answer to my questions (and to provide additional pics) and he thinks the "No" looks engraved. Now whether he misunderstood and thought I meant the actual serial numbers... I don't know for sure. But I don't think that's the case. And it's so difficult to tell in pics, even those used in the red bible exactly whether they are raised as I stated above or what. I do wish I'd had the opportunity to see and handle an original to be sure of all this, but failing that I'm putting out a plea for help!

Also opinions... does it look like an original bar (albeit if the Labor is faked perhaps that was simply put in place of the original Labor in order to make it seem more valuable... not that I'm accusing the current seller of same... but that it could have been done in the past at some point), and what do you feel the value should be "if" the Labor is a fake (or, if I'm wrong and it's real)? I'm assuming I'd have to look at it as a sum of it's parts and that the only sure way to know if it's actually an original group would be research. But again just thought I'd pop this out for opinions. I don't have a ton to spend so no telling if it'll even go beyond that or what. I'm hoping if the Labor is confirmed to be fake that he'll not that in the auction and that might help.

Here are some pics:

[Hauptmann]

[Hauptmann]

[Hauptmann]

Again any and all opinions would be deeply appreciated.

Many thanks!!!!

Dan

[Alfred]

Hi Dan,

to me the bar looks like put together. The suspension is made out of aluminium and looks brand new, although the newest

medal is from 1945.

As I am on holiday, I have no eccess to my pictures according to the labour medal with number. But compare the upper tip of the red star with orıginal photos. The peak must touch the rim of the medal and compare the position of the letters P and B in the word SATPYDOBYJ with the two ends of the star.

regards

Andreas

[Hauptmann]

Hi Dan,

to me the bar looks like put together. The suspension is made out of aluminium and looks brand new, although the newest

medal is from 1945.

As I am on holiday, I have no eccess to my pictures according to the labour medal with number. But compare the upper tip of the red star with orıginal photos. The peak must touch the rim of the medal and compare the position of the letters P and B in the word SATPYDOBYJ with the two ends of the star.

regards

Andreas

Hi Andreas,

Many thanks for your reply. Quite understand on the vacation situation as when I was off in Florida for a couple of months I was in basically the same boat. Much as I hated to, I had to leave my red and green bibles behind.

On this one the star does indeed seem to touch the rim of the medal from what I can see... just. But what you say about the letters... especially the B... the point of the star seems to be point at the back of the B in the pics in the red bible but it seems to be pointing almost to the front of the B on this one.

So considering all things... the Labor is definitely a copy. And as a put together it's really only worth whatever the other three medals would run separately and possibly a little more for the Labor as a copy.

Still hoping to hear more opinions on these as again, not ever having seen one of the real numbered examples I'd love to learn all I can about them. I'd actually not heard about the letters in relation to the star before. Many thanks on that.

Will stay in a holding pattern for now.

Thanks!!!!

Dan

[Hauptmann]

Hi all,

Well, the auction ended and it went much higher than I'd expected. I'd written the seller a couple of days before the auction ended and told him the bar was likely a put together and that the Labor medal was a fake. I was very nice about it and explained the why's and wherefores in case he wanted to add the info to the auction. Surprise surprise, he didn't do so and I have not heard back from him. At least I tried. I feel bad for the buyer though.

It had 8 bids and went for... $109.48!!!!

Here's the link for anyone intro'd:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...DME:X:AAQ:US:11

Dan