HANNOVERIAN MEDAL ID HELP PLEASE

[mossop]

I recently picked up a rather interesting German Officers Hanoverian Waterloo medal to a Lieut in the Landwher Batt Hildsheim and it Seems he fought for the Prussians at Jena, part of the Westphalian Corps with Napoleon during the Russian Campaign of 1812 and with the Hanoverians at Waterloo.

He wrote an account of his military experiences and their is a photo of him in this account wearing two medals. One is the Hanoverian Waterloo and I'm guessing the other is a War Service Cross of some type - maybe someone knows which one ? - The picture is not too clear unfortunately.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Mossop

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello Mossop:

Congratulations regarding your acquisition!

From the photo, it is not possible to tell exactly what the cross is. However, logic would point to this probably being a Hannovarian 25 year service cross for Officers. So, I believe that minus any other supporting data, this is the only thing that makes sense.

If you provide his name, someone at this forum, could undoubtedly check to see if his awards are listed in any literature. I only have an 1849 ranklist (which I can check), but perhaps Wildcard, or some other folks, have an earlier one?

Best regards,

"SPM"

[mossop]

Thanks for your reply SPM, your suggestion of medal sounds a good possibility. Here is what I have on him so far in my files - any corrections would also be appreciated

MAJOR HEINRICH WUNDENBERG

Born Bockenem - Principality of Hildesheim 8th Sept 1788

Died Hildesheim 12th Nov 1870 aged 82

Jan 1806 conscripted into Prussian Guard aged 17.

Part of Corps of Prince Hohenlohe at battle of Jena Oct 1806 where he was wounded. He was captured at Prenzlau but escaped with two other soldiers.

1807- joined Westphalian Grenadier Guards - promoted Corporal and then Sergeant.

1809 - Transferred to 8th Infantry of Line forming at Hildesheim as NCO Instructor

1810 - Transferred to 1st Battalion Light Infantry Regiment (chasseurs) being formed at Paderborn

1811 - Promoted Lieutenant by vote of Officers of Corps

1812 - Regiment part of 8th Westphalian Army corps under Jerome, King of Westphalia that forms part of Napoleons Grand Armee invading Russia.

Takes part in Battles of Smolensk and Borodino as well as smaller affairs. Shot in chest at Battle of Borodino but fortunately saved by his greatcoat which was worn rolled and slung, therefore only badly bruised.

While the Westphalian Corps was left in the locality of Borodino, 1st and 2nd Light Battalions were assigned to the advanced guard which entered Moscow.

During the subsequent retreat from Moscow Wundenberg, along with 1 Captain and 60 Men were assigned to convoying the Ammunition Wagons when they were attacked and captured by 5/600 Cossacks. Wundenberg alone escapes -the rest of the prisoners die in captivity. He rejoins his Regiment and after much hardship what is left of the Grande Armee reaches the Berezina. Wundenberg is one of the few men to cross the river and is one of only 7 from his Regiment. The retreat continues and by the time they reach Prussian soil Wundenberg suffers a nervous breakdown at Posen, he is one of the lucky ones as the retreat as such is over but casualties have been terrible - especially those of the Westphalian?s. Out of 824 men of the 1st Westphalian Chasseurs who marched to Russia, only 6 returned. Out of the 27,000 Westphalian Contingent only 110 were to return at the end of November 1812!

1813 - Transferred to Grenadier Guards at Kassel, unit remains at Kassel during expedition against Saxon Army and therefore avoids having to fight them (much to Wundenberg?s relief)

1814 - Joines Hanoverian Army as Senior Lieutenant of Landwher Battalion Hildesheim (3rd Company).

July 1814 marches to Antwerp.

1815 - Landwher Battalion Hildesheim forms part of General Campbell?s Division of Wellington?s Army at Quatre Bras and Waterloo and capture of Paris.

1816 - Arrives back in Hildsheim in January and appointed Staff Captain.- all this accomplished by the age of 27!- Takes lessons in Mathematics, Arithmetic, Geometry and plan drawing.

1823 - Officer in charge of geometric surveying and praised by the Commission for his work.

1828 - Appointed Company CO, 6th Infantry at Stadt.

1836 - Gets Pneumonia - retires from Military with Rank of Major.

1839 - Appointed Manager of Post Office at Goslar.

1847 - Retires

Wrote Memoir ? My Military Experiences 1806 - 1816? sept 1867 from which all of the above is extracted

Mossop

[Wild Card]

Hello Mossop,

The 1837 Hannoverian House and State Handbook shows him on staff of the 6th Line Battalion, holding the Hannoverian Waterloo medal.

1840 House and State Handbook shows him on staff of the 5th Infantry Regiment, now holding the Hannoverian Waterloo medal and, yes, the Wilhelm?s Cross for 25 years of military service - an example of which is shown below. I hope that this information is helpful.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[mossop]

Fantastic!! - many thanks wild card, great to have such a good quality pic also.

It would be really nice to try and find an example to go with my medal- I presume they are very rare and very expensive?

Mossop

[Naxos]

Fantastic!! - many thanks wild card, great to have such a good quality pic also.

It would be really nice to try and find an example to go with my medal- I presume they are very rare and very expensive?

Mossop

Mossop Hermann Historica had one for sale:

http://www.hermann-historica.de/auktion/hh...;db=kat48_2.txt

Regards, Hardy

[Ulsterman]

Interesting to note he lived long enough to get a St. Helena's medal as well. I wonder if he did.

A Hanovarian Landwehr officer @1815 courtesy of Haythornwaites' Uniforms of Waterloo: 1974.

Edited September 25, 2007 by Ulsterman

[mossop]

Thanks Hardy and Ulsterman

Good to know what these cross's roughly go for

Picture of the Officer is excellent - I'll stick that in my file. I don't know anything of the St.Helena medal but He died in 1870?

Mossop

[Daniel Cole]

That he was a mail man in interesting. For what it's worth, I once contacted the German Post Office Archives in think in Frankfurt. I found the email address on line. I had a question about a postal guy who was awarded ther Red Eagle. Anyways they sent me a photocopy of his complete history from their version of the RAnglisten. He ended up have the 1870 EK amongst a whole slew of other things. Might be worth a try. I know its a strange source, but it was very informative.

Dan

[Ulsterman]

The "St. Helena was awarded to all those who served the Emperor in the Grand Armee by Napoleon III. Although many of the medals records were burnt by the Commune-odds are he got one.

[Wild Card]

Hello again,

That cross offered by Hermann looks to be absolutely correct for your purposes and The price is certainly right. These crosses have been approaching $1,000 recently as Hannover is being discovered (as one of the ignored Imperial German states) and properly appreciated. Keep in mind that you want a gold example because from 1860 on, these crosses were made of gold plated bronze.

As you know, the Hannoverian Waterloo medals are named, with unit or title, along the rim. Possibly your man?s medal is still out there somewhere. These medals currently start at about $1,000 and go up from there according to recipient, which, when compared to the British Waterloo medals is something of a bargain; but here we are dealing with a classic case of supply and very strong demand.

Also, should you wish to contact them, as far as I know, the Hannoverian archives are still located in Pattensen.

Wild Card

[mossop]

Thanks again Dan,Ulsterman and wild card

Very interesting about the German Post Office Archives, I think I've read that being in charge of a Post Office was an important role in the 19th Century - I'll certainly look into this.

Thanks for the explaination of the St. Helena medal, I didn't know such a medal exists but I've checked online after your post and found details of it - shame they weren't named!

I'll look at a badget of about $1000 for one of these Crosses, its actually a little less than I expected (not that I'm saying its a small amount!) but it would be nice to have one to display next to his Hanoverian Waterloo. I'll certainly keep in mind what you say about later issues.

Totally agree about the price of Hanoverian Waterloo's compared to British, I have a British Officers also and compared to Wundenberg's it cost much, much more. I also have a Brunswick Waterloo and it always amazes me the price difference, especially when they were all at the same battle...

I don't know very much about the German States side of things during the Napoleonic Wars (My interest normally being Napoleonic Naval and Colonial Wars) but the more I've read, the more interesting I've found it. Wundenberg is a great example as he fought for Prussia, France and under Wellington all in 9 years.. The Brunswick medal I have is to a man I think also fought in the Kings German Legion in Spain.

Thanks again Mossop