Luftwaffe LUFTWAFFE NARVIK SHIELD

[Joe D]

Please confirm the photo above is of the "small 4" fake?

Hi,

The shield that started this thread is the "small 4 fake".

[Joe D]

Rude is not at all what that was. This is a just perfect example of a person (you) who has no idea what you are talking about telling someone (me) an unsubstantiated claim that their item is a fake. Your's sir is the fake, and I will list the reasons why so you can compare them side by side to see what I am talking about.

1. The lower section of the laurel wreath containing the swastika is flattened and does not show the clear detail as seen on my example. Poor workmanship found on known cast fakes.

2. The letters N, R, & K are flawed. Common in known cast fakes.

3. The edelweiss flower has no sharp details as can be found on mine, another sign of poor casting.

4. The upper corner near the number 40 has a casting flaw, extra material commonly found on poorly cast fakes.

5. The steam of the edelweiss flower is also not clearly defined as is the upper section of the anchor, again the sharp details found on real pieces has these details where your cast copy does not.

6. The center of the propeller is not a clearly defined hollow circle, again a perfect example of a cast fake.

7. The rings on the propellers are also not sharply defined, a casting fault.

8. The entire right side of your cast badge below the word NARVIK is loaded with extra material and lacks the sharp details as found on original pieces.

9. The rope on the anchor shows no fine details in regards to the twisted rope as found on correct pieces.

I could go on buy frankly I find this an exercise in futility. Details my friend, details! If they are not there is a poorly cast copy. I suggest you place the photos side by side and read my notes. When a side by side comparison is done there is other conclusion a knowledgeable person can come to other than yours is a poorly cast copy.

I have been doing this for over 40 years now and unfortunately do take offense when someone who has no idea of what they are talking about has the gall to call one of my items a fake.

I hope this will help you in your quest for knowledge. You need it! If you think this is rude you need to grow up. Just for your information, the members on this forum are some of the most knowledgeable people in this hobby. It is just common courtesy and respect not to snipe at other peoples property and try to justify it by saying I was just trying to help. No one appreciates it and when you have no idea of what you are talking about it reflects poorly on you.

There will be no charge for this lesson!

Hi Vince,

Have the clearer pictures changed your opinion on this shield or are you going to stand by these comments?

Thanks,

Joe

[sftrooper86]

Hi Vince,

Have the clearer pictures changed your opinion on this shield or are you going to stand by these comments?

Thanks,

Joe

Hi Joe,

The clearer photos you have submitted of your fake shield just cement my findings. I guess we will have just agree to disagree. When you have been doing this as long as I have been you will know that opinions are like buttocks. Everyone has one, and unfortunately some stink. Besides you should not feel too bad about collecting fakes, that's how we learn.

Happy Hunting!

[Joe D]

Hi Joe,

The clearer photos you have submitted of your fake shield just cement my findings. I guess we will have just agree to disagree. When you have been doing this as long as I have been you will know that opinions are like buttocks. Everyone has one, and unfortunately some stink. Besides you should not feel too bad about collecting fakes, that's how we learn.

Happy Hunting!

Alright Vince,

I give up! If you choose not to learn so be it. Your right, we are all entitled to our own opinions.

Joe

[Jos Le Conté]

Here're both shields compared..

I believe joe's shield to be the original.., and the other one the so-called small 4.

Also check both points of the anchor..., but there're more small differences..

Jos.

[J Temple-West]

I think you?re right, Jos. The detail is just not there.

The term ?small 4 fake? has me confused (easily done, before anyone else says it ) I know there is a supposed fake with the characteristic ?small 4? but I don?t think that Vince?s example is one of these as the 4?s on both Joe?s and Vince?s look to be the same size.

What I consider to be the classic ?small 4? is as the one shown below.

[J Temple-West]

To make matters even more confusing, I refer you to the picture of the shield taken from a period book and presented by our own Gordon Williamson proving the point that the ?short-tailed 9? (till this point considered a characteristic of a fake) was indeed found on originals.

Not a particularly good image?but look at the 4. Is it smaller that the zero? I leave that up to you to decide.

[J Temple-West]

So, the Narvik Shield?total confusion reigns as to what is and is not original, IMO. The only advice I can give to those who are as confused as I am is to, if given the choice, choose the type shown by Prosper (post # 10) or the type attributed to ?Deumer? (also faked so all the usual checks should be made) which has the metal remaining in the spaces between the eagle?s head and wings. In this way you can be confident of acquiring an original as both types have been found in groups and on period-correct uniform.

Everything else should be considered on shield-by-shield bases and all characteristics taken into account.

I wait with eager anticipation for the publication of Pascal Huysmans?s reference work on the subject. Then perhaps all will be made clear.

Until then, I remain?confused.

[juvatwad]

To my eyes the thing that stands out on the "small 4" fake is the thickness of the vertical portion of the "4". It is thicker on all examples above that are considered to be the fakes.

[Paul R]

Larger photo for Joe...

[Joe D]

Thanks Paul,

This is what the shield looks like in natural light. I actually owe a big thanks to Pascal H. for locating this shield for me. Most of my knowledge on these came from Frank H. and Pascal H. Also, I cannot wait for Pascal's new book!

Joe

PS: No hard feelings Vince, I hope we can back up and start out on the right foot.

[Peter BL]

Hi Joe.........Your Narvik is definately an Original shield........I don't think the shield that started this thread is a small '4' fake but the over-detailed Eidleweiss is a giveaway that this shield is a copy.

Peter