Possible to ID this lapel bow

[webr55]

Working on the assumption that these awards are indeed the Carl Eduard medal, SEHOX and WF (probably WF3bX, which I think is more plausible than a PrKO), is there any chance to ID this 25mm lapel bow at this stage?

Edited November 15, 2017 by webr55

[Deruelle]

Hi,

Like there is no X, I don't think these ribbons are with X. It's probably an officer who received the EH3b, CM2 and KO4 or WF3.

Regards

Christophe

[webr55]

I don't think so. Three pre-war awards and nothing during WW1? KO4 and no LS award? And this is most probably not a wartime lapel bow, but rather 1920s.

I think the Xs were deliberately left out to not make the EK2 ribbon look like an HHOX or KO4X/RAO4X.

[Guest Rick Research]

I would agree that any Xs have been left off. Too many if peacetime to have NOTHING but an EK wartime.

IF that is a Prussian Crown Order 4, there is only one match--

Ferdinand Baron Charpentier

Leutnant 27.1.98 E4e Drag Rgt 15

Oberleutnant 19.11.08 E3e Kur Rgt 8

Rittmeister 18.10.12 X Hus Rgt 9

char Major aD

EH3aX from Coburg 28.5.15, Rtm EskChef HR 9

CM2X 22.10.17 the same

now obviously he would have had a 1920 XXV, but as several of my recent ribbon bar matchs have turned up, SOME officers just left that off...to confuse us.

IF it was a WF3aX or WF3bX, I could not find a match. Daniel may still be working on the Prussian recipients. So there MAY be another answer...

but my best suspect right now is Baron Charpentier NOT wearing his long service cross. 25mm ribbons are quite large for a lapel bow, and he may have decided another layer was too bulky. How on earth was it attached-- with a safety pin on back?

[webr55]

Baron Charpentier sounds quite nice, thanks! Sounds like the right person to have had such a bizarre piece.

And bingo, it has a safety pin on the back (which someone decided to stick some adhesive tape to).

Edited November 15, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

Here's some information from the regimental history of the 9. Husaren. This is their first ranklist when the war started, with Baron Charpentier leading the 2. Feldeskadron:

Edited November 15, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

No pictures of individuals, sadly. Here's the second ranklist from June 1915.

Edited November 15, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

This must have been when the Baron got his Carl Eduard medal from the Duke (CM2X 22.10.17):

Edited November 15, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

And in July 1917, Baron Charpentier had fallen ill and was commanded to the Ersatz-Eskadron:

Edited November 15, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

He is not in the last ranklist shown, from the end of 1917:

Edited November 15, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

And isn't that a coincidence?

Edited November 15, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=22684

Edited November 15, 2017 by webr55

[Ulsterman]

Here is the good Baron in 1931:

He is in the front-far left wearing a dark frock coat and perhaps- a butonaire?

[webr55]

Ahhh, thanks!! You mean this one?

Edited November 15, 2017 by webr55

[Ulsterman]

Yes. That is him.

[webr55]

Wow! Is that taken from a book?

[Ulsterman]

a magazine actually. his regiment had an extensive veterans magazne run from 1931-1944. Lots of info. on members.

[webr55]

a magazine actually. his regiment had an extensive veterans magazne run from 1931-1944. Lots of info. on members.

Is that the "Nachrichtenblatt" of the "Traditionsverband Ehemalige 9. Husaren"? Apparently this one continued to be published from 1967-1975.

[Ulsterman]

Is that the "Nachrichtenblatt" of the "Traditionsverband Ehemalige 9. Husaren"? Apparently this one continued to be published from 1967-1975.

Really? I assumed my last issue (1944) on thin, worn wartime paper was the last issue! Do you know where I can find the series from 1967-75?

[webr55]

Ulsterman said:

Really? I assumed my last issue (1944) on thin, worn wartime paper was the last issue! Do you know where I can find the series from 1967-75?

The Württembergische Landesbibliothek in Stuttgart has it. They have got a "Nachrichtenblatt" from 1967-1975, and a "Rundschreiben" from the same Traditionsverband from 1963-1985 (!).

Edited November 15, 2017 by webr55

[webr55]

It seems the Charpentier family was from Alsace, Strassburg. A Baron Charpentier is listed in the DOA 1908 as director of the "Landesgestüt Elsass-Lothringen". Not Ferdinand, I think, must have been older as he had the RAO3mSchl.

Could Baron Ferdinand have been the father of future Knights' Cross recipient Hans Georg von Charpentier? He was born in Strassburg in 1902, served briefly in his father's regiment (HusR 9) in 1919, later went into SS Cavalry. Killed in action as Sturmbannführer 1945.

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by webr55