Medal bar

[Noor]

Hi,

I am just starting to learn to "read medal bars". Maybe someone can help me here a little .

As I understand the owner of this medal bar was a soldier or NCO from Saxony. He served in the army before WWI (Imperial Russia medal), fought bravely on the front line (swords with Hindenburg cross and EK2 and FAM) and survive the war (Hindenburg cross). Is this correct?

[Mike Dwyer]

Hi, Noor,

I can't speak as to your description of the bar, I'm not familiar enough, but I will say that's a very nice looking medal bar! Beautiful!

[militaria0815]

Hi,

I am just starting to learn to "read medal bars". Maybe someone can help me here a little .

As I understand the owner of this medal bar was a soldier or NCO from Saxony. He served in the army before WWI (Imperial Russia medal), fought bravely on the front line (swords with Hindenburg cross and EK2 and FAM) and survive the war (Hindenburg cross). Is this correct?

Correct. Nice bar!

[Guest Rick Research]

It is a TERRIFIC bar!

XV years of service indicates he was a career NCO. 1914-18 = 10 years service for these awards for regulars, so add 5 REAL years on either side (2 to the mass discharge of March-April 1920, 3 years before the war = "15" total.)

What is unusual is that he received the Friedrich August Medal in BRONZE and not Silver. Privates and very junior NCOs got the bronze, while the silver was basically anybody from Unteroffizier to Feldwebel. So this was probably a 1914 award while still a Gefreiter. Then for the entire rest of the war he got an Iron Cross... but nothing else from Saxony!

But the real jewel here is the Russian Medal for Zeal. Odds are-- despite Nicky The Last's head on the front-- that this was actually a POST-WAR award from the Whites, for fighting in the Baltic states in 1919. If we could have seen this fellow wearing his full set of awards, I betcha there was a Baltic Cross pinned below these ribboned awards.

If it WAS a pre-war award, and he got this as a very, very lucky private standing in an honor guard line, the Tsar was not an honorary "Chief" of any Saxon regiment, so that is no clue as to this wearer's original unit.

[Noor]

Thanks mates for info!

Rick, to you think this man was member of Freikorps in the Baltic or Silesian area? Good stuff, then I am even extra happy with that medal bar ! I didnt know that Germans got the Imperial Russian awards even after start of IWW.

Sorry again now my silly question but I got as well this two place medal bar. I havent managed get any information about that medal whats there? Could you please let me know what award it was, criterias, approx. how many awarded?

[Guest Rick Research]

That is the medal awarded jointly by Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt and Schwarzburg-Sondershausen in WW1--

Medaille f?r Verdienst im Kriege.

It is on the same ribbon as their shared House Ordere, the Honor Cross. There is another blue stripe in the center covered by the folds.

Awarded to enlisted ranks. I do not know the numbers, but the WW1 rolls probably exist, so that may be known someday. Certainly these are actually scarcer than the Offical Price Guide currently values them.

[Noor]

Thanks again Rick !!!!!

Edited November 3, 2007 by Noor

[Chip]

the Tsar was not an honorary "Chief" of any Saxon regiment, so that is no clue as to this wearer's original unit.

Rick,

The Saxon 2.Feldartillerie Regiment Nr.28 received the Namenszug Kaiser Nikolaus II von Ru?land on the same day that he became the Chef des Regiments on June 19, 1914. The title was withdrawn in 1917, when the names of all enemy regimental Chefs were withdrawn.

Chip

[Noor]

Thanks Chip for extra information. So, the owner served maybe in the Saxony 2.Feldartillerie Regiment Nr.28? You guys are doing amaizing work

Rick, I think I asked before but is it possible to find ID of this medal bar:

[Guest Rick Research]

Ahhhhh. Chip-- that fell RIGHT into the cracks! So it WAS possible that young Gefrieter X got this on that very important day a mere 6 weeks before the war started!

The one--the ONLY--class of White Falcon for which the Roll is largely missing is THAT one-- the SWF3bX. No rolls have been found YET on the Red Cross awards, though it wouldn't surprise me if they turn up SOMEPLACE. I should think the German Red Cross itself should have had a set.

[Noor]

Thanks Rick for all your help!

I love that last medal bar but because just this German Red Cross its not match with my collection criterias (I try to focuse in my collection early age as much as possible). Now, when its not even trackable, I am a little dissapointed .

But ones again, thanks for your help!

[Noor]

I post here two my new medal bars and would like to try to understand them more. Any info would be great!

I. Prussia medal bar

1. Prussia Order of the Crown 4th Class

2. Prussia War service Cross (war aid?)

3. Prussia 15 year service cross

4. Wilhelm I Centennial medal

As far I understand, ovner of that medal bar was Prussian native, who was in service 1897(Wilhelm I Centennial medal). IWW time mobilized again (15 Year Service cross) and served behind front (War Service Cross). He was junior officer (Order of the Crown 4th Class).

[Noor]

II. Prussia medal bar

1. EK 2

2. Order of the Z?hringen Lion Knight 2nd Class with oaks and swords

3. Hindenburg Cross with X

4. Landwher XX Long Service Cross

Again, I understand this one like this: Prussian junior officer (BZ), who served some Landwher unit already before the Great war (20 year LS award). Fought in the IWW frontline (EK2, BZ, Hindi with X). Survived the war (Hindenburg with X). But why Order of the Z?hringen Lion? Am I wrong and he was Baden native, who fought in Prussia unit?

[Guest Rick Research]

I don't know what settings you are using for your scans (which are otherwise perfect ), but I can copy them straight through my caveman's "Paint" and get the exact same image for HALF the KB used. (Why doesn't anyone listen to me and just get EPSON scanners? Sigh)

It takes FOREVER to download your offsite remote links, so I have plunked in posted-here copies on three of the above medal bars. Nothing worse than a USELESS thread whose illustrations have vanished.

Also, scan on a WHITE background. Dark backgrounds, aside from making everything harder to see, eat up KB-- think of every color as ink out of a pen. The more there is, the bigger the "blot." Background is a complete waste of KB size.

ANYWAY

Crown Order 4/War Effort/XV/1897 bar is immediately identifiable as an actual, during-the-war bar most likely of an army Zahlmeister. Naval engineers, army/navy ordnance specialist officers and so on got promoted earlier and either had a lower enlisted long service or had moved up to having the XXV Cross. Naval paymasters also had lower enlisted time in. Because this has no XXV, it also helps identify it as the bar of a paymaster, because as administrative officials, they were not actually awarded the XXV Cross until AFTER the war--making this from DURING the war. As a "pure Prussian," not going to be traceable, but we know what he was. Since he had a Crown 4 before the war, he'd been commissioned at least 18 years by 1914. After 15 years in the ranks, minimum, that made him past 50 when the war started-- and holding a rank equivalent to 1st Lieutenant. They had to wait for somebody higher up to DIE to get promoted!!!

Congratulations on the Baden bar-- that was Tom Y's, eh? With only 1,514 BZ3bXEs ever awarded, I still don't have one.

Those were given by rank, so the recipient was a CAPTAIN. The Prussian XX Cross indicates that he was a Hauptmann (or Rittmeister) of the Reserve (dR) or Landwehr (dL). He could have gotten the XX before the war, or afterwards. While Baden's enlisted men were "native" troops of that State, its officers, under the Military Convention set up when the Empire was founded, were considered Prussian officers-- so there is no way to tell whether this officer was a native Badener or a Prussian with one Baden award. Again, with no other "peculiar" awards, not going to be traceable.

You'll just have to settle for something 1/4 as common as a Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross, you poor thing!

[Noor]

Thanks Rick for all your information!

Who is Tom Y? Not from him

[Dave Danner]

That is the medal awarded jointly by Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt and Schwarzburg-Sondershausen in WW1--

Medaille f?r Verdienst im Kriege.

It is on the same ribbon as their shared House Ordere, the Honor Cross. There is another blue stripe in the center covered by the folds.

Awarded to enlisted ranks. I do not know the numbers, but the WW1 rolls probably exist, so that may be known someday. Certainly these are actually scarcer than the Offical Price Guide currently values them.

The rolls exist. The Honor Cross rolls are in the process of being transcribed. The medals will have to wait a little while.

[saschaw]

Very nice Baden bar. The bar has been from a Thies auction, later was offered by Heiko, hmm ... I should have bought it. ;o) This Hauptmann startet service apparently post 1902, as he has no Baden jubilee medal, so was one of the younger Captains.

[Guest Rick Research]

Orrrrr: not commisioned in 1902

Orrrrrr not a native Badener.

For an XX by 1920, he'd have to have entered as a 1 Years Volunteer no later than 1900. If so, probably commissioned about 1905... which would be kind of unlikely for a Hauptmann dR or especially dL much before 1917/18 if he was lucky.

So if every single Baden officer, active and regular, got the 1902... he'd done his Volunteer year earlier but still wasn't commisioned in 1902. We can also rule out 1896/97 as his Volunteer year since there is no Wilhelm I Centenary Medal.

[saschaw]

Yes Sir, I think this is more correct.

Every officer got the medal that served in a Baden unit or(!) was a native Badener but no NCO with less than eight or nine years of service got it.