EK 1939 Knights cross

[repadilla]

Hello all, Are there crosses with the stampings stamped in a box indentation rather than the usual outer stamping on the knights cross? I am looking to buy a knights cross with such a stamp. It is marked L/21 and 800.Thanks for any info! Regards, Repadilla

[Richard Gordon]

Repadilla

Welcome to GMIC, I hope you find your stay here pleasant and informative!

As for your potential purchase, I would recommend that you post images of the cross here first before committing to buy. The marking L/21 is not a recognised manufacturer of the Ritterkreuz so already I would have concerns.

Regards

Rich

[repadilla]

Repadilla

Welcome to GMIC, I hope you find your stay here pleasant and informative!

As for your potential purchase, I would recommend that you post images of the cross here first before committing to buy. The marking L/21 is not a recognised manufacturer of the Ritterkreuz so already I would have concerns.

Regards

Rich

Thanks for the reply Rich, The numbers look like it could either be a L/11 or L/21. I am forwarding some pictures for any opinons or comments. Any info. will be greatly appreciated. Regards, Repadilla

[repadilla]

Thanks for the reply Rich, The numbers look like it could either be a L/11 or L/21. I am forwarding some pictures for any opinons or comments. Any info. will be greatly appreciated. Regards, Repadilla

Update; It looks like I cannot upload pictures of the cross because the max I can upload is 65k and the pictures that were sent to me are apparently greater. Any suggestions for another method to upload these pics.? Thanks, Repadilla

[Richard Gordon]

Update; It looks like I cannot upload pictures of the cross because the max I can upload is 65k and the pictures that were sent to me are apparently greater. Any suggestions for another method to upload these pics.? Thanks, Repadilla

I've sent you a private message with my email address if you want to send the pictures to me I'll resize them for you.

Rich

[Richard Gordon]

Here's the pics supplied by Repadilla.

My own opinion is reproduction.

Rich

[Richard Gordon]

Last:

[repadilla]

Last:

Thank you rich for sizing the pictures and for your opinion as well! Can you or any one else tell me why you believe this to be a reproduction, so that I may learn what to look for in the future? Again, many thanks to you and this great website! Repadilla

[PKeating]

It shares no die characteristics with any cross by an authorised maker of the period. Authorised makers include

C E Juncker

Steinhauer & L?ck

Klein & Quenzer

C F Zimmermann

Gebr?der Godet

Deschler und Sohn

Otto Schickle

Other firms did make the Ritterkreuz early in the war. before the regulations regarding the retail supply of Germany's highest award for valour were tightened up but the cross you are asking about it certainly not one of them. It is a well-known type of fake that is encountered with various makers' marks and probably first came out of Eastern Europe about five to eight years ago.

L/21 was the LDO code for Foerster & Barth, who were not authorised manufacturers. 21 by itself would be the PKA code for Godet but no original crosses from this maker are known bearing marks on the frame reverse , as they appear on the ribbon loop. In any case, Godet's crosses appear to have been made by Zimmermann. L/11 was the code for Deumer, which was not an authorised maker either.

If in the market for a genuine Ritterkreuz, you would be well advised to but a good reference book, like Gordon Williamson's The IRON CROSS of 1939. If looking for a good collection filler or museum quality copy, there are various options available to you but paying between a third and two thirds of the market price for a fake from some bandit operating through an internet auction site is not an option. What is the vendor of this cross asking for it? $2,000? $3,000? $2,499.99?? The asking price is often the first indication that you're not going to see an genuine item.

PK

[repadilla]

It shares no die characteristics with any cross by an authorised maker of the period. Authorised makers include

C E Juncker

Steinhauer & L?ck

Klein & Quenzer

C F Zimmermann

Gebr?der Godet

Deschler und Sohn

Otto Schickle

Other firms did make the Ritterkreuz early in the war. before the regulations regarding the retail supply of Germany's highest award for valour were tightened up but the cross you are asking about it certainly not one of them. It is a well-known type of fake that is encountered with various makers' marks and probably first came out of Eastern Europe about five to eight years ago.

L/21 was the LDO code for Foerster & Barth, who were not authorised manufacturers. 21 by itself would be the PKA code for Godet but no original crosses from this maker are known bearing marks on the frame reverse , as they appear on the ribbon loop. In any case, Godet's crosses appear to have been made by Zimmermann. L/11 was the code for Deumer, which was not an authorised maker either.

If in the market for a genuine Ritterkreuz, you would be well advised to but a good reference book, like Gordon Williamson's The IRON CROSS of 1939. If looking for a good collection filler or museum quality copy, there are various options available to you but paying between a third and two thirds of the market price for a fake from some bandit operating through an internet auction site is not an option. What is the vendor of this cross asking for it? $2,000? $3,000? $2,499.99?? The asking price is often the first indication that you're not going to see an genuine item.

PK

Thank you gentlemen for your expertize on this cross and knights crosses in general. I see I have a lot more research to do so that may indeed find an original knights cross some day,hopefully without spending a fortune! Regards, Repadilla

[Richard Gordon]

Repadilla

I have put together a reference site for collectors covering Luftwaffe awards and the Iron Cross 1939. If you go to the Knight's cross section you can see examples of originals from different makers.

http://rgordon4.tripod.com/decorations/id103.html

You just need to click on which maker you are interested in to see an example.

Regards

Rich

[david wilkinson]

dear repadilla

i have a few ek1 and ek2.in my collection.however i have never had the chance.of an original

knights cross i am replying.to let you know to stay away.from a scum bag on e bay who is selling knights crosses.he says are 100%

o.k. he is from spain.he has sold a few over the last few mounths.he always has sold them with a photo of a knights cross winner.they are junk.do not buy.its no fun being ripped off.i hate finding out fellow collectors have been conned.

all the best

john,

[repadilla]

dear repadilla

i have a few ek1 and ek2.in my collection.however i have never had the chance.of an original

knights cross i am replying.to let you know to stay away.from a scum bag on e bay who is selling knights crosses.he says are 100%

o.k. he is from spain.he has sold a few over the last few mounths.he always has sold them with a photo of a knights cross winner.they are junk.do not buy.its no fun being ripped off.i hate finding out fellow collectors have been conned.

all the best

john,

Thank you John, for the heads up! I have seen the last two crosses he sold on ebay. Best regards, Repadilla

[repadilla]

Repadilla

I have put together a reference site for collectors covering Luftwaffe awards and the Iron Cross 1939. If you go to the Knight's cross section you can see examples of originals from different makers.

http://rgordon4.tripod.com/decorations/id103.html

You just need to click on which maker you are interested in to see an example.

Regards

Rich

Hello rich, Great reference site, showing the official makers crosses. and other metals as well! Thanks for putting it together. Regards, Repadilla