Romania Order of Carol I revived

[Carol I]

King Mihai, the former monarch of Romania and head of the royal family, has signed the new regulation of the Order of Carol I revived as a dynastic order. Between 1906 and 1947, the Order of Carol I has been the highest order of the Kingdom of Romania.

Regulamentul ordinului Carol I (Romanian language)

[Christophe]

Thanks Carol I for the info. Interesting.

But three questions :

1. How do you qualify this un-official order ? Who is supposed to award and receive it ?

2.Is this the 1st Order the former Monarchy of Romania has re-instituted ?

3. Why did he wait so long (3 years) before reistating this Order. It is said it was decided on 5th January 2005, but doc in force only today ?

Cheers.

Ch.

[Mike Dwyer]

Thanks Carol I for the info. Interesting.

But three questions :

1. How do you qualify this un-official order ? Who is supposed to award and receive it ?

Christophe,

A small technical point, but perhaps you mean non-governmental order instead of un-official? If the order belongs to the royal house of Romania, then it is an official order of the royal house, so it can't be un-official. It may no longer be an official order of the government of the country of Romania, but is still an official order of the royal house. There are many royal houses that are no longer ruling their respective countries that still award their house orders, which is perfectly legal and legitimate (as far as the international community goes).

Since it is a order of the royal house, I would presume H.M. King Michael or his designated representative would have to award it.

[Christophe]

Hi Mike,

Good points. I think you are right on these points. It's an interesting subject; for my information, do you know other official orders of royal houses, that are not official order of the government of states?

Cheers.

Ch.

[Guest Rick Research]

For a time, it seemed as if Archduke Otto might have been made a constitutional monarch in Hungary...

is there ANY party/faction urging a restoration of the monarchy in Rumania?

[Mike Dwyer]

Hi Mike,

Good points. I think you are right on these points. It's an interesting subject; for my information, do you know other official orders of royal houses, that are not official order of the government of states?

Cheers.

Ch.

Hi, Christophe,

I know of a few, but there are probably more. Here are the one's I've heard about:

Portugal: The head of the royal house, H.R.H. Dom Duarte, Duke of Bragan?a, still awards the Order of the Immaculate Conception of Vila Vi?osa and the Order of Saint Michael of the Wing. I know a few people who are members of both.

Montenegro: The current head of the princely house, H.R.H. Prince Nikola Petrovic-Njegos, has been awarding the Order of Danilo I.

Duchy of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha: According to the website of the ducal house, the head of the house, H.H. Prince Andreas, has been awarding the Saxe-Ernestine House Order again. See their website at http://www.sachsen-coburg-gotha.de/?Das_He...shaus:Hausorden

Lippe: Not sure which one, just Lippe or Schaumburg-Lippe, but I met a man once who had the House Order of Lippe and he was awarded it sometime in the 1970s or 1980s. That was under the former head of the house who has since passed away, I don't know if the current head is awarding it or not.

Tuscany: The head of the grand ducal house of Tuscany, H.I. & R.H. Prince Sigismondo, Archduke of Austria, is still awarding the Order of Saint Stephen.

Bourbon-Two-Sicilies: The head of the royal house of Bourbon-Two-Sicilies, H.R.H. Prince Ferdinand, Duke of Castro, still awards the Order of Constantinian Saint George, I know some people who are knights of the order. I believe he also still awards the Order of Saint Januarius too, but I'm not positive about that.

Italy: The head of the royal house of Italy, H.R.H. Crown Prince Vittorio Emanuele of Savoy, Prince of Piedmont and Prince of Naples, has been awarding both the Order of Saints Maurice and Lazarus and the Civil Order of Savoy.

Austria: The royal and imperial house still awards the Order of the Golden Fleece, the current head of the house, H.I. & R.H. Archduke Otto transferred the grandmastership of the order to his son, H.I. & R.H. Archduke Karl.

Ethiopia: The Crown Council of Ethiopia, formed by the last emperor, still awards the Order of Solomon?s Seal, the Order of Emperor Menelik II, the Order of the Ethiopian Lion, and the Order of the Star of Ethiopia. Another Ethiopian group, allied to the Crown Prince, also awards these same orders.

Rwanda: I have heard the former king of Rwanda, H.M. King Kigeli V, has been awarding the Order of the Lion of Rwanda.

That's all I personally know of, as I said, there could be others.

[922F]

Hello---Carol I is there any information on where insignia is/will be manufactured?

I understand that Simeon's royal Bulgarian St. Alexander Order pieces were/are made in Madrid, Kigeli's Lion in the USA and Peru, the Italian states in Italy, the Annamese Dragon in France, and Burmese royal orders in Singapore.

Besides the pretenders mentioned above, persons claiming thrones from Albania to Zanzibar sometimes award honors to their supporters. Other well known "exile" decorations stem from Serbia, Egypt, and even Hawaii. Various claimants award many other awards besides those mentioned above. Kigeli, for example, has five orders potentially available. One of the Bourbon Sicilians has either 3 or 4 orders available including those that were former state merit orders--NOT house orders.

The Royal Ark website offers considerable information on these individuals and their awards. Several web sites {Caltrap's corner and Stair-Sainty for example} devote pages to discussions of "legitimacy", the various pretenders and outright scams. Complete sections of Stair Sainty/Heydel-Mankoo's World Orders of Knighthood and Merit detail pros & cons.....though Guy cannot be described as a "disinterested party" as he has been honored by several exiles.

Besides former rulers and their descendents, other tiers of pretenders with medals to hand out exist from "countries" like Sedang to the Balareric Islands. "Heirs to traditions" & self-appointed archmandrites also have awards available, usually to those who support their "missions" financially.

Several books provide useful information on these types of awards. The OMSA library had copies of some of these including "The Knightly Twilight", "Fonts of Honor", "The White Cross" and two French language books with names including terms like pseudordres and countreordres.

[Megan]

The picure at the top of Carol I's link suggests they will use insignia similar to the 1909-47 Kingdom of Romania order - although that apparently was in 4 grades (Collar, Grand Cross, Gand Officer and Commander), whereas if (a big if!) I read this aright there is to be a Knight grade in the revived dynastic order as well.

As to non-governmental awards, I think they do need to be recorded if only to avoid confusion. Still brooding on how to present them on my website - whether as a sub-section of the nation of origin or as a completely separate area divided by whoever's handing them out. Any thoughts?

[Ed_Haynes]

The picure at the top of Carol I's link suggests they will use insignia similar to the 1909-47 Kingdom of Romania order - although that apparently was in 4 grades (Collar, Grand Cross, Gand Officer and Commander), whereas if (a big if!) I read this aright there is to be a Knight grade in the revived dynastic order as well.

As to non-governmental awards, I think they do need to be recorded if only to avoid confusion. Still brooding on how to present them on my website - whether as a sub-section of the nation of origin or as a completely separate area divided by whoever's handing them out. Any thoughts?

You might list these in a section that also included the various medals from 'Star Trek'?

They do need to be documented, but their fantasy and Viagra-like nature needs to be stressed.

[Megan]

Personally, I prefer not to editorialise... as there are many nation-states past and present whose politics I don't condone, but whose medallic history I will display. Like this community, political views have no place on my website.

As I have a separate section for private-purchase comemmoratives, I think the likes of the dynastic orders listed by Mike Dwyer probably belong in a separate section as well. People are free to decide for themselves the validity of awards made outside of governments and sanctioned non-governmental organisations (e.g. the UN), but at least they'll be able to recognise them!

[Carol I]

Thanks Carol I for the info. Interesting.

You are welcome. I thought you might find it interesting.

1. How do you qualify this un-official order ? Who is supposed to award and receive it ?

I do not qualify it in any way. Apparently it is now only a dynastic order after being the first order of the Romanian national system of decorations for more than 40 years.

According to Article II of the regulation it will be awarded as a recognition of the merits of Romanian and foreign personalities. More details regarding the award criteria are in Article III of the regulation, but I will do a translation lately.

2.Is this the 1st Order the former Monarchy of Romania has re-instituted ?

The actual national system of decorations of Romania is based on the old system of decorations. The premier order is the Order of the Star of Romania, originally established in 1877. There are two other national orders, the Order of Faithful Service, established by King Carol II and initially ranked above the Order of the Star of Romania, and the Order for Merit, initially a dynastic order established by King Carol II. The laws establishing them stated that they were re-established and even included the old awardees in the rolls of the new orders (although in practice there were no surviving awardees).

3. Why did he wait so long (3 years) before reistating this Order. It is said it was decided on 5th January 2005, but doc in force only today ?

I do not know these details. I only saw the piece of news and I posted it further.

[Ed_Haynes]

Personally, I prefer not to editorialise... as there are many nation-states past and present whose politics I don't condone, but whose medallic history I will display. Like this community, political views have no place on my website.

As I have a separate section for private-purchase comemmoratives, I think the likes of the dynastic orders listed by Mike Dwyer probably belong in a separate section as well. People are free to decide for themselves the validity of awards made outside of governments and sanctioned non-governmental organisations (e.g. the UN), but at least they'll be able to recognise them!

I agree with you Megan, these are certainly worth recording, if for no other reason that they'll confuse future phaleristic generations as to what they are unless they are documented.

[Carol I]

Since it is a order of the royal house, I would presume H.M. King Michael or his designated representative would have to award it.

The order will be awarded by the head of the royal family. Now the position is held by King Mihai.

[Carol I]

is there ANY party/faction urging a restoration of the monarchy in Rumania?

There is a monarchic movement, but it is very small.

[Carol I]

Carol I is there any information on where insignia is/will be manufactured?

There is no information on the manufacturers in the regulations of the order.

[Carol I]

The picure at the top of Carol I's link suggests they will use insignia similar to the 1909-47 Kingdom of Romania order - although that apparently was in 4 grades (Collar, Grand Cross, Gand Officer and Commander), whereas if (a big if!) I read this aright there is to be a Knight grade in the revived dynastic order as well.

That is a generic picture, Megan, as I presumed that the order will use the old insignia. The novelty is indeed that there will be a knight class in the organisation of the new dynastic order.

[Christophe]

You are welcome. I thought you might find it interesting.

I do not qualify it in any way. Apparently it is now only a dynastic order after being the first order of the Romanian national system of decorations for more than 40 years.

According to Article II of the regulation it will be awarded as a recognition of the merits of Romanian and foreign personalities. More details regarding the award criteria are in Article III of the regulation, but I will do a translation lately.

The actual national system of decorations of Romania is based on the old system of decorations. The premier order is the Order of the Star of Romania, originally established in 1877. There are two other national orders, the Order of Faithful Service, established by King Carol II and initially ranked above the Order of the Star of Romania, and the Order for Merit, initially a dynastic order established by King Carol II. The laws establishing them stated that they were re-established and even included the old awardees in the rolls of the new orders (although in practice there were no surviving awardees).

I do not know these details. I only saw the piece of news and I posted it further.

Hi Carol I and others, many thanks for the expanations and comments.

Cheers.

Ch.

[James Hoard]

There is one comment I would like to add on the status of King Michael, and by implication, his order.

His official position in Romania is very different from that of other former monarchs of oher lands. He is officially recognised as a former Head of State and is accorded the rank, status and priviledges of a former Head of State. He is even addressed as His Majesty and King Michael and his wife as Her Majesty and Queen. Royal forms of address are used for his children and son-in-law.