Soviet Opinions about research options

[new world]

Gents,

I have this neat large group to a veteran.

Unfortunately there are no combat WW2 awards, but it has every jubilee and army anniversary medal. It also has Ukrainian order of B Khmelnitsky, 1985 OPW, as well as some unit specific veteran badges.

Has anyone ever done research on groups like this one? What were the results?

I can think of two scenarios for this group:

1) vet has participated in WW2, but never really saw any combat action or never had a chance to distinguish himself to be considered for an award

2) There were some WW2 awards (in separate order book) which were seprated from the group and the research may shed some light onto possible missing pieces.

What do you think?

William

[Ed_Haynes]

Ouch. Not sure there is any place to start. There is nothing other than a name about the group that could instigate a search and you don't have branch of serive or rank or much else (other than that he was a Ukranian, at least at some late time in life). Not sure there's any place to start, but you can always ask the researcher. Answering such questions is free (as are failed searches), which is why the cost of successful searches is so high (actually, as someone who does reasearch, I don't think it is, but so many complain).

[Christian Zulus]

Dear William,

is it a 3rd class of the Khmelnitsky ?

Do you have any order books of the veteran or any other documents ?

The Khmelnitsky is a combat award and the 3rd class was frequently awarded also to partisans.

Best regards

Christian

[Guest Rick Research]

Probably 1) but like Ed says, without the documentation for 2) you've got noplace to go.

Is there a unit/rank on his Victory Medal document?

[Ed_Haynes]

1- It was my understanding that it was a Ukrainian Khmelnitsky and not the Soviet one, so 0% chance (<0% chance?) of research.

2- I didn't think he had ANY medals from the GPW, just post-war commemoratives? So no Victory over Anybody Medal?

Dead end, I fear.

[Guest Rick Research]

In that case, DOOMED.

[new world]

I just checked the group again and I think there's some hope.

He has the following medals w docs:

- Liberaion of Warsaw

- Capture of Berlin

- Vistory over Germany

His rank at the war's end was Guards Captain.

Unit name: 4th Guards Antitank Artillery Brigade, reserve of stavka.

One of his badges is for veteran of 247 Roslavl Rifle Division.

If he was a Captain, he must have been in the trenches for a while, so I hope he had some awards.

William

[Christian Zulus]

Dear William,

is it that Khmelnitsky, which JimZ has as his avatar http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showuser=1543 ?

I don't think, that the Guards Captain got a (new) Ukrainian one of the 1990s, as Ed meant.

At least one Order of the Red Star is missing, because all officers, who didn't get enough combat awards, got after the victory a RS.

To start the research with the Khmelnitsky - if it's the old Soviet GPW-award - would make sense.

A captain in a antitank artillery Guards unit - making the way from Warsaw to Berlin -, who got a Khmelnitsky 3cl, should usually have a collection of RS, OPW - even a RB.

You might find some intersting and courageous citations.

Best regards

Christian

I just checked the group again and I think there's some hope.

He has the following medals w docs:

- Liberaion of Warsaw

- Capture of Berlin

- Vistory over Germany

His rank at the war's end was Guards Captain.

Unit name: 4th Guards Antitank Artillery Brigade, reserve of stavka.

One of his badges is for veteran of 247 Roslavl Rifle Division.

If he was a Captain, he must have been in the trenches for a while, so I hope he had some awards.

William

[new world]

Christian,

the recepient got NEW Ukrainian order of Khmelnitsky, it was issued after Ukraine became independent.

William

[Ed_Haynes]

I suspect there may be a very interesting story here, if you can ever dig it out. At least there are some WWII campaign medals, though he seems at first glance to be very much of a "rear area" kind of guy. While they were vitally important to the winning of the war (as was civilian effort), many who are more soldier-loving don't see them as very sexy. The more important point is that without any numbered Soviet awards it will be hard to link into his history. I do suspect, however, that he must have had something in the way of long service awards (MMM, Red Star) that have been split off.

It is worth asking the Researcher, sending him large detailed scans of the booklets for the WWII medals.

[Christian Zulus]

the recepient got NEW Ukrainian order of Khmelnitsky, it was issued after Ukraine became independent.

Dear William,

sorry .... my mistake - I just oversaw that you wrote that the Khmelnitsky is UKRAINIAN .

Also the (original) Khmelnitsky might be called "Ukrainian", due to the fact, that the order shows the Ukrainian hetman Bogdan Khmelnitsky of the medivial ages and that the order was primarly awarded for (mostly combat) contributions during the liberation of the Ukraine during the GPW.

Best regards

Christian

[Guest Rick Research]

Post the three WW2 Campaign Medal documents. If he was in the same unit on all of them, all issued over a spread of time, then there MAY be some hope after all for a name-to-match-with-?-awards search.

Assuming he was not Ivan Ivanovich Ivanov.