Luftwaffe Juncker SW68 Discussion

[Flak88]

Gents,

I have been reviewing the state of play on our understanding of the SW68 markings and would like to see if there are any thoughts out there.

Generally agreed upon:

1) The SW68 is a good marking (of this I am 100% certain)

2) The SW68 is the last marking used by Juncker (based on Flaks I can say this marking is only seen on the third and final pattern Flak badge)

Questions I have:

1) WHY did they change the mm?

2) Could it have been because they were producing after the factory was bombed in 1944 and they added the 68 to mmeorialize the old address? This is romantic, but can we believe and dies survived and they continued post-44?

3) Is there any other info out there on the 68 marking?

Discuss.

Thanks!

Marc

[J Temple-West]

Hi Marc

I?m not sure if we?ll ever know, but something certainly changed for the firms based in the ?SW? area of Berlin?.Not only ?Juncker? changed their mm to include the ?68?

[J Temple-West]

Going on this particular nickel plated zinc, ?C E Juncker Berlin SW68? badge I would say that the ?68? mm was in operation before the bombing of the Juncker factory, which I believe was during December ?44.

To have been able to acquire the raw materials for new dies, have them cut, the tooling set up for production and a production run (to include finishing, assembly and delivery) to take place, let alone the issuance of these badges to newly qualified personnel, after the bombing, would have been nigh-on impossible.

[J Temple-West]

Recipient of the badge shown above.

[Flak88]

Thanks Jay - all good info! I find the Schwerin bit quite interesting. Too bad we have so many forums - seems all the good bits n bobs get placed a bit about! Raises one major question for me - why change your mm? Other firms did it. Brehmer had two for the Tombak and then went GB. Why make a change? Stamp wearing a bit? We all know the Juncker mm was poor, and they had come off the CEJ mm. Any thoughts?

[Gordon Williamson]

Clear from the chronology of the introduction of the KM war badges that Schwerin first introduced the postal district "68" as early as May 1941with the introduction of the 1st Pattern E-Boat Badge.. For some reason the "SW" was only used on the First Pattern U-Boat Clasp and drooped for the Second Pattern.

U-Boat September 1939 BERLIN

Destroyer June 1940 BERLIN

Minesweeper August 1940 BERLIN

Blockade Breaker April 1941 BERLIN

Auxiliary Cruiser April 1941 BERLIN

Fleet Badge April 1941 BERLIN

1st E-Boat May 1941 BERLIN 68

2nd E-Boat January 1943 BERLIN 68

1st U-Boat Clasp May 1944 BERLIN SW68

2nd U-Boat Clasp November 1944 BERLIN 68

According to the city authorities in Berlin, when I enquired about location of the Juncker factory, the whole area was pretty much flattened during the late part of 1944 so its hard to imagine that Schwerin escaped unscathed, but with their use of the 68 as early as as May 1941 it suggests that for them at least, it was unrelated to the bombing.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Maybe the stamp for the makers mark itself began to wear out or got damaged?

The last thing you want to have done in bad quality is your makers mark.

At a point maybe they said.... hmmmmm.... the details are no longer so fresh on these...

Another possibility.... maybe the old stamp did not work so well on other forms of metal? i.e from Tomback to Kriegsmetal ?

[Flak88]

Is there any possibility they got back in business between 12/44-5/45? Their factory was rubble, the dies must have been lost - or was it possible? Their new office was in the western zone making West German awards. God knows they were out of the eastern zone for good...