That damned blue and white ribbon...

[landsknechte]

Some of you with longer memories might remember my strange, and perhaps unhealthy, obsession with a little blue and white ribbon which seems to be eluding all attempts at identification. Been wrestling with it for more than two years now, ever since landing two identical ribbon bars with it tucked in there...

[landsknechte]

...and now, at the dawn of 2008, this bar is winging it's way through the labyrinth of the postal system. No closer to having any idea what it is, but at least I now know that it wasn't a one-off ersatz fix for some other decoration.

[Ulsterman]

hmmmm..again some sort of Bavarian connection. Interesting precedence....so not foreign, but a state LS type award perhaps?

However, perhaps we are talking about two different ribbons here: a "close enough" and a foreign (Argentine)?

Edited January 9, 2008 by Ulsterman

[webr55]

...and now, at the dawn of 2008, this bar is winging it's way through the labyrinth of the postal system. No closer to having any idea what it is, but at least I now know that it wasn't a one-off ersatz fix for some other decoration.

I'm just wondering: Have you already got a pic of the back of the 2nd bar? Because the precedence is strange - Hungarian before Treudienst??

[saschaw]

I'm just wondering: Have you already got a pic of the back of the 2nd bar? Because the precedence is strange - Hungarian before Treudienst??

The outfitter apparently thought not only Austria but as well Magyar was "eaten" by German's superpower ...

[landsknechte]

Here's the reverse:

[Guest Rick Research]

I wo0nder if it's one of those Chamber of Commerce, "Handelskammer" sorts of private business awards?

[webr55]

I'm not sure I like this bar. Our friend from Austria has similar bars, he manages also the Bavarian style.

[landsknechte]

I'm not sure I like this bar. Our friend from Austria has similar bars, he manages also the Bavarian style.

Once I get it in hand and have a chance to really look it over, I'll post my observations. Seems like a strange ribbon to have found it's way to a fake ribbon bar. As far as I know, I own the only other two German ribbon bars in existance with that ribbon on it.

Interesting that this bar has the civil service DA, and mine has the BMVK on the Beamter ribbon. Two bars hardly makes a broad sample, but that might prove to be a clue right there.

[Guest Rick Research]

I think landsknechte is the ONLY person on Earth who has ANYTHING with the Mystery Ribbon. That's a good sign.

[landsknechte]

I think landsknechte is the ONLY person on Earth who has ANYTHING with the Mystery Ribbon. That's a good sign.

The first two ribbon bars, which very obviously belong to the same person and were made by the same person, came to me from two different continents. What ever it is, it was meant to be.

"No sir, you are the caretaker. You have always been the caretaker."

[Ulsterman]

If these were to the same person-then i am leaning towards a senior Bavarian Reichsbahn official. No Wehrmacht Ls-a state LS medal, obvious war time duties in some sort of paramilitary uniform (KVKx were awarded liberally to RAD and NSKK etc. in war zones).....hmmmm....that would lead one to conclude some sort of Chamber of Commerce award.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Ulsterman

[landsknechte]

If these were to the same person-then i am leaning towards a senior Bavarian Reichsbahn official. No Wehrmacht Ls-state LS medal, obvious war time duties in some sort of paramilitary uniform (KVKx were awarded liberally to RAD and NSKK etc. in war zones).....hmmmm....that would lead one to conclude some sort of Chamber of Commerce award.

No, these two bars couldn't be to the same person.

I only posted one of them, but I have two identical examples of the sew on bar.

[Ulsterman]

Hmmmm...what sort of Bavarian, ex-officer needs two of the thinner "Hussar" type ribbon bars 1935-45?

If it's AFTER the Luitpold on both, it MUST either a VERY low precedented German award-or an earlier foreign award.

Given it shows up as a German award on the 2nd bar (before the flower war medals), it must be some sort of Bavarian state award that was earned.

Hmmmmm-I suspected an Argentine San Martin:Knight, which would put this at @ 1943- and hint at an overseas occupation and/or attache/consul/military adviser etc. etc.

Edited January 10, 2008 by Ulsterman

[landsknechte]

Hmmmm...what sort of Bavarian, ex-officer needs two of the thinner "Hussar" type ribbon bars 1935-45?

Officer? I had always assumed it was a MVK.

[saschaw]

Officer? I had always assumed it was a MVK.

Me too, I have no idea what this makes an major-level MVO4aX ... ?

I guess Rick is absolutely right about his guess, this seems to be any Bavarian "Landwirtschafts-" oder "Handelskammer" awards, semi-official and presumably from Weimar era or early 3rd Reich - but those actually were not allowed to be worn post 1936, from what I know ...

- "actually", we know how many wore what and how they liked to.

[Guest Rick Research]

I'm assuming/guessing NCO-level as well.

[webr55]

I guess Rick is absolutely right about his guess, this seems to be any Bavarian "Landwirtschafts-" oder "Handelskammer" awards, semi-official and presumably from Weimar era or early 3rd Reich - but those actually were not allowed to be worn post 1936, from what I know ...

So are we talking about something like this:

[webr55]

So are we talking about something like this:

[Guest Rick Research]

Something LIKE that, but not that. The narrow white edges have no blue on the outside of the Whatever It Was landsknechte ribbons.

If it was Red Cross, I think we'd have found a full sized WIW by now, hence my guess that it is that type of obscure private award.

If there are ribbon bars, there MUST be medal bars.

[landsknechte]

That particular award was continued into the Third Reich, FWIW. Note how the acorn has been replaced with a Swastika.

Edited January 10, 2008 by landsknechte

[Ulsterman]

Officer? I had always assumed it was a MVK.

well, the Hussar ribbon style? For an NCO?

Ok, the sword's don't match, but what else...?

[landsknechte]

well, the Hussar ribbon style? For an NCO?

Ok, the sword's don't match, but what else...?

I thought that Bavarian officers didn't get a long service decoration until they hit 25 years, and in that case wouldn't there have been a 1905 Luitpold to go with the 1911?

[Ulsterman]

I thought that Bavarian officers didn't get a long service decoration until they hit 25 years, and in that case wouldn't there have been a 1905 Luitpold to go with the 1911?

Double commemoratives? I didn't think that was allowed.

[landsknechte]

Double commemoratives? I didn't think that was allowed.

Perhaps Rick can confirm what the regs were. I know I've seen a number of bars with two of them on there, but they may not have been following regulations. If I remember correctly, the Generaloberst Otto Dessloch bar was amongst them.