India/Pakistan ?

[Chris Boonzaier]

I have stopped and started on this group for ages, have never got a foot further than step one when it comes to research.

I have the DSO group to Vern Coaker, commander of Skinners Horse in the 1920s, DSO for North Western Frontier 1919, apparently he was detached from his unit at the time.

A researcher had a peak in the archives for me, nada, zip, zilch... not a sausage to be found.

The only hope I have as I see it is to try and contact the regiment.

Is it an Indian or Pakistani Regt nowdays? Is there anyone who can suggest a way of going about it? I understand the Indian army has kept many traditions taken over from the brits, would a regimental museum be one of them?

Thanks to anyone who can help.

Best

Chris

[Ed_Haynes]

Skinner's went to India, see:

http://www.regiments.org/regiments/southasia/cav/1903-03.htm

http://www.regiments.org/regiments/southasia/cav/1921-01.htm

But you probably won't get much out of the regiments. They do have a museum, but it is totally off-limits to normal humans, Indian or foreign. They will answer no queries, as a violation of security restrictions.

Coaker, per Jan 1919 IAL:

Major Verne Arthur Coaker, Indian Unattached List (3rd Horse)

4 Jan 1878 born

22 Jan 1898 commissioned

30 March 1899 appointed to the Indian Army

1 Sep 1915 promoted to major

1 June 1917 appointed Remount Purchasing Officer, Baluchistan and Sind

1 Oct 1918 appointed a squadron commander in 3rd Horse but on detached duty (remount)

Qualified at a school of musketry

Passed course of transport instruction

Qualified Hindi (obligatory)

Will check regimental histories etc. Amazed your researcher could find nothing. But some just don't care. Had I later IALs I could do MUCH better for you!

Have you tried a quick search in the online London Gazette?

Ed

[Chris Boonzaier]

I found this...

Commandants of the 1st Duke of York"s Own Lancers

(Skinners Horse)

Col. James Skinner C.B. From 10-3-1803 to 4-12-1841

Major L.H. Smith From 5-12-1841 to 9-12-1849

Col. Crawford T. Chamberlain From 10-11-1849 to 4-8-1867

Col. W.R.E. Alexander From 5-8-1867 to 31-3-1876

Col. R. Jenkins From 1-4-1876 to 9-9-1880

Col. A.R. Chapman From 10-9-1880 to 9-9-1887

Col. R. Morris From 10-9-1887 to 9-9-1894

Col. R.F. Gartside-Tipping C.B. From 10-9-1894 to 9-9-1901

Col. C.H. Hayes From 10-9-1901 to 31-3-1907

Col. C. Davis From 1-4-1907 to 31-3-1912

Col. C. Bailey From 1-4-1912 to 4-12-1914

Col. G. Holland Pryor M.V.O., D.S.O. From 5-12-1914 to 6-7-1916

Lt. Col. F.D. Russell From 7-7-1916 to 8-7-1920

Lt. Col. E.C.W. Conway-Gordon C.I.E From 17-4-1921 to 28-5-1924

Lt. Col. V.A. Coaker D.S.O. From 23-5-1924 to 8-4-1927

(The Regiment was amalgamated with the 3rd Skinner"s

Horse on 1st May 1921 and became the 1st Duke of York"s

Own Skinner"s Horse).

This tablet has been erected by

Lieut Stanley E. Skinner, 1st Duke of York"s Own Lancers

Grandson of the late Colonel James Skinner C.B.

by whom the Regiment was raised and this Church was built,

in memory of the visit to this Church

on September ??th of His Royal Highness The Prince of Wales

Colonel in chief of Skinner"s Horse

when I finally get to delhiI want to go to the church and take a photo of the tablet.

I have the book "Hindu Horsemen" by an officer in the regt, and apparently there is one called "sworn to die"

I think he got the DSO while detached from the regt. In the gazette he is listed as 3rd Skinners horse, but he is not listed with the regt as having recieved the award on their strength for NWF 1919, so probably detached and not for combat.

[Ed_Haynes]

I think I have a photo somewhere, let me look.

[Ed_Haynes]

From St. James' Church in Delhi . . .

[Ed_Haynes]

More . . .

[Ed_Haynes]

Col. James Skinner, CB

[Ed_Haynes]

Memorial 1 -

Not as detailed as we'd like, sorry --

[Ed_Haynes]

Another memorial, detail lacking.

Shall try to try again next time (December?).

[Ed_Haynes]

Oh, and the church from the outside.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Super, thanks !!

There is a regt history caled "Sworn to Die" wheich i have not been able to find... do you have any idea where i could find a copy and is it any good?

Thanks

Chris

[Ed_Haynes]

Oh, yes, I forgot.

M. A. R. Skinner, Sworn to Die (New Delhi: Lancer International, 1984)

Have it right here. Fairly chatty, as is usual for a regimental history written by a military officer who has no training as a historian, whose love of "his" (in this case, really "his") regiment transcends his skill as a researcher or writer. Often seems to be as interested in sports as he is in operations; it is that sort of regimental history. Covers from 1921 (The Great Amalgamation) through 1945 (with a few notes only on post-1945 regimental activities). There is no useful index, as is common for such things, but there is a brief index, which is fairly unusual. Will dig out mentions to Coaker later.

The regiment sells these through the IAC Centre at Ahmednagar, so you have to be fairly secretive in finding someone who knows someone, etc. The last I heard, their stock was running down with no plans to reprint. While a few are very nice, the overall quality of anything out of Lancer has been dropping like a rock.

Other regimental histories:

H, Roberts, A Short History of the 1st Duke or York's Own Lancers (Skinner's Horse) 1803-1908 (Lucknow: Indian Daily Telegraph, 1908)

Christopher Rothero, Skinner's Horse (Maiden: Almark Publishing Co., Ltd., 1979)

None of these histories are easy to fine and will often set you back the price of a nice 2nd Sikh War medal to the regiment. Look on abebooks.com? Some plans are underway for regimental histories (as well as Army Lists) to start coming out on CD-ROM, once copyright questions can get resolved. Cross your fingers.

St. James' Church sells low-quality printings of two books on Skinner, but that is even further from what you seek.

[Ulsterman]

Damn-

Almost a year too late. Col. Gray was a very good friend of my Dad. He once leant me his ENTIRE Skinner's Horse library and gave me a turban wrap when I was a kiddie. He would have known.

See here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...0/16/db1601.xml

Still, his wife might have some of his stuff. The Regiment might respond to a letter invoking his name.

Edited September 27, 2005 by Ulsterman

[Chris Boonzaier]

That article gave me a chuckle indeed! Riding...polo... pig sticking... I spent big money indeed on a book by an officer of the regt and it more or less goes like this...

Chapter 1-20 Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking... damned war..Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking...

Ah... what a life it must have been back then...

[Chris Boonzaier]

He once leant me his ENTIRE Skinner's Horse library and gave me a turban wrap when I was a kiddie.

Didnt you want to show how it was worn, once way back when? ;-)

[Ed_Haynes]

That article gave me a chuckle indeed! Riding...polo... pig sticking... I spent big money indeed on a book by an officer of the regt and it more or less goes like this...

Chapter 1-20 Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking... damned war..Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking...

Ah... what a life it must have been back then...

This is pretty much the Way it Was. There as a standing joke in the Indian Army (infantry regiments only):

Two regimental officers meet in the mess. After the third whiskey, one officer tells the other: "Old boy, I got a cat, a tom."

The second replies: "First rate, what did you name him?

The first replies: "Indian Cavalry."

Ther second asks: "Why?"

The first answers: "Because all he is does is eat, sleep, drink, and [fornicate]."

Enough said?

The joke has survived partition and can still be heard recgarding the Armoured Coirps.

[Ulsterman]

Didnt you want to show how it was worn, once way back when? ;-)

Indeed-damned camera

But oh, I wish I'd kept the badges.

[Michael Johnson]

That article gave me a chuckle indeed! Riding...polo... pig sticking... I spent big money indeed on a book by an officer of the regt and it more or less goes like this...

Chapter 1-20 Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking... damned war..Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking...Riding...polo... pig sticking...

Ah... what a life it must have been back then...

Funny! That sounds exactly like Volume I of the Central India Horse regimental history.

[Michael Johnson]

Lancer does not seem to have a website, but I found the following contact information:

CAPT BHARAT VERMA LANCER INTERNATIONAL

B-3 GULMOHAR PARK

NEW DELHI 110 049

INDE

Tel: (011) 664933

Fax: 6862077

It also might be worth keeping an eye on eBay.

Abebooks is listing a copy, but at $137 U.S.!

[Ed_Haynes]

Marketing isn't Lancer's strong suit (neither is edition or quality of produiction). I think the bookshop on the Bharat Rakshak site has some of their books for sale. Most were done in TINY print runs, so abebooks may be the sole source.